What aircraft are these guys in?

[Capt. Vick]

I found this picture on the inter-web-do-hickey while searching in Google for pictures of the Arado Ar 232. Now the caption said it was taken from inside that plane, but I have my doubts. Does anyone know?

 

[ww2restorer]

I found this picture on the inter-web-do-hickey while searching in Google for pictures of the Arado Ar 232. Now the caption said it was taken from inside that plane, but I have my doubts. Does anyone know?

View attachment 350057

Definitely not from the outside of the aircraft

 

[WJPearce]

Did the Ar 232 have waist gunners? Is that a third guy down on the floor? I think it may be an He 111.
Бортовые стрелки немецкого бомбардировщика He-111 - фото | Военный альбом 1939, 1940, 1941-1945

 

[fubar57]

Beam guns were added in the Heinkel 111 H-2 variant and according to one book, one gunner operated both weapons

 

[GrauGeist]

It looks like the rear of the Ar232's fuselage.

The gun positions were located on a platform just aft of the loading ramp's closed limit.

This photo isn't the best perspective, but look to the aft section of the fuselage, you'll see where the gun position(s) are.

 

[fubar57]

Dave, I have this book....

....and though it shows the tail gun, there is no mention of beam guns. It did look promising though

 

[GrauGeist]

Geo, those guys are at the tail of the fuselage. Note the bulkhead just about them, the sloping and radiused deck beneath them and the angle of the windows tapering towards the conjunction of the fuselage directly behind them.

You also notice directly in the forground, the barrier that's at the edge of the loading ramp opening.

 

[fubar57]

It is possible some were modified

 

[Capt. Vick]

Did the Ar 232 have waist gunners? Is that a third guy down on the floor? I think it may be an He 111.
Бортовые стрелки немецкого бомбардировщика He-111 - фото | Военный альбом 1939, 1940, 1941-1945

I think you are correct. There does appear to be a third guy on the floor between them and a "window" beyond him, no?

 

[GrauGeist]

I know the early Ar232s had the single MG131 tail position, but the later B series had two MG131s.

If that's not the Ar232, then it must be an aircraft of similar configuration.

And for the record, the He111's waist position was situated directly over the dorsal position. (Pardon the stock photo watermarks)

 

[GrauGeist]

Did the Ar 232 have waist gunners? Is that a third guy down on the floor? I think it may be an He 111.
Бортовые стрелки немецкого бомбардировщика He-111 - фото | Военный альбом 1939, 1940, 1941-1945

This page says it's an He111.

The captions over the image states:
"Side arrows German bomber He-111"

 

[fubar57]

Did anyone else have their anti-virus kick in when using that link?

 

[GrauGeist]

Wouldn't be surprised, it's a .RU domain.

I've been on the ipad, so I travel to .RU and .CN domains with impunity!

 

[fubar57]

A couple of Ar 232 stills from this Russian video, was not expecting to see twin MGs

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCbOn8UYOFw

Now I'm gonna lose sleep looking something similar to Jim's photo

 

[fubar57]

Have an Ar 232 PDF and put Google Tranlator through its paces...

 

[parsifal]

is it possibly an aircraft from the RA such as SM82 or Z1007?

 

[Capt. Vick]

is it possibly an aircraft from the RA such as SM82 or Z1007?

Damn! You beat me to it! That is just what I woke up this morning thinking! A commondeered Regia Aeronautica plane. And perhaps the "studded" semicircular bar in the foreground is for use by a gunners feet to kick a dorsal turret around?

 

[Capt. Vick]

A couple of Ar 232 stills from this Russian video, was not expecting to see twin MGs

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCbOn8UYOFw


View attachment 350089 View attachment 350090 View attachment 350091

Now I'm gonna lose sleep looking something similar to Jim's photo

Geo,

I believe the video that you posted shows the Arado Ar 232 that was used for the abortive "Zeppelin" mission to insert agents into Russia with the specific aim of assassinating Marshal Stalin. Honestly an awesome find! Thanks!

 

[Graeme]

To me it looks like the photo was taken from the back of the aircraft looking forward as indicated, but I can't explain that semi-circular ring in the foreground of Jim's photo.
Both gunners are keeping their feet away from the ventral bath and the guy on the right is being assisted with what looks like a harness of sorts. The ventral gunner seems to be crouching with his arse towards us.
Now, I don't how accurate cutaways are, but me thinks we don't see the dorsal gunner because there's a half-circular armour (8mm) plate (A) that comes down like a curtain with a gap at the bottom. You can see this in Jim's and Dave's photos. I'm presuming you can duck under this and move into the dorsal gunner's area.

I'd say He-III. But of course I could be completely wrong.

 

[ww2restorer]

Although no photographic evidence, even 'Wiki' states that the Arado had up to eight waste gunners when used as a troop carrier.