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So they occupied Besarabia - no oil there. If Stalin was to attack Germany, he would not supply them with oil (and other stuff) all way to Barbarossa.No tomo - it is in '39 or '40 - post M-R Pact. I'll find a date/details and post but the action was what prompted the Romanians to ally with Hitler.
MM
The reason for attacking Rumania was about establishing a strong presence in the balkans. Stalin was seeking to establish political control over Europe, and traditionally the starting point for that was through dominating the balkans. Thats why the balkans was known as the "backdoor to Europe". Stalin wanted to gain political influence over the Germans and prevent them from dominating the whole of Europe. The fact that it was a gross overestimation of Russian capabilities is irrelevant really.
" ...The M-R pact was seen in Soviet Union as a pact between two equal subjects. .."
Perhaps in Stalin's eyes, tomo, but certainly not in Hitler's. Your comment in an earlier post about the Balkans (gateway)was more correct and insightful.
No oil in Bessarabia - true - but also much German influence from the distant past there.
And definitely moves the yard sticks into post-1918 Romania. The occupation of the Baltic Republics was a long time Soviet ambition - they had been part of the Imperial Eagle's jig saw puzzle since Peter - and were chucked out by Independence Movements in 1918-19. Stalin wanted them back. Hungary and Bulgaria were never spheres of Russian influence - not Slavic in any way shape of form. Stalin was a hegemonist as well as a (international) communist
IMHO the only part of your statement that is really true "pact between two equal subjects" is the equality with which each man believed he was smarter and more cunning than the other. In the short term Stalin misjudged Hitler and was wrong, in the long term he was right - and survived to create a post WW2 superpower.
You make no comment about my several references to "Ice Breaker". Do you not have any thoughts on this subjectthat you'd care to share, or, do you like many believe that Russia was blind-sided by Hitler on that fateful June 22nd morning??
You assume many things that weren't - Hitler being in 'right mind', broken German economy buying furs for soldiers, German HQ Hitler concern about logistics.Yes, I am well aware that train loads or ore, oil, and other necessities rumbled over the border just hours before the cannons started .... but ... Stalin was warned by Churchill several times of the exact date and hour of the German attack. Soviets don't willingly acknowledge this but it is nonetheless true. The question is why did Stalin play "dumb" when he knew this information: the answer is that he was buying time for his own first strike, and that he truly believed that Hitler was just "maneuvering". After being warned by the British about Barbarossa, Stalin took that information seriously enough to get intelligence agents all across Nazis occupied Europe to check the fur market - sheepskin, rabbit, cowhide, whatever. The market was FLAT - no rush, no hoarding, no inflated prices, nada. From this intelligence Stalin determined that rumor of Barbarossa was a BLUFF - after all - no leader in his right mind would contemplate war with Russia without preparation for WINTER
Well - Stalin was wrong. He couldn't envisage the daring and audacity of an attack that was betting on taking Moscow by end-September '41. Not only was Stalin wrong, but he was thoroughly shaken psychologically. That's why he just disappeared for the better part of the first week of the war. Poof - gone. Let the Generals bumble and stumble without plans or orders.
Stalin was a chess player. Hitler was a gambler.
CheersHealth, my friend.
MM
Never read the "Ice breaker"
The story of the furs is his - not mine - but could be cross checked. Buying sheep skins for boots, rabbit for glove linings - these aren't luxury furs and ANY military thinking of war with Russia would make winter uniforms - but not Hitler
Nonetheless the historical record is the historical record.
I am very suspect of Soviet era thinking. Facts were not allowed to get in the way of social engineering.
Germany was not on a war footing economy until 1942-43. Women not mobilized in the work force as in USA or USA or GB. This semi-peacetime mode is just another symptom of Hitler being delusional.. Guns AND Butter.
I think you greatly underestimate the influence of Germans on pre-1917 Russia. Regions like Latvia and Estonia looked entirely to Germany for culture and religion. Lithuania looked to Poland - which was Catholic not Orthodox. And it had been thus for hundreds of years - these countries were first colonized by Teutonic Knights and were Hansiatic states before Peter.
Again - acknowledging generalizations - tribes such as Balts, Estos and Magyars had always been threatened from the east by hordes that sprung up - whether Huns, Mongols or the Tsars army.
These of course are all gross generalizations and I concede that but use them here to illustrate what I meant by "the historical record is the historical record".
So with all respect tomo - please don't dismiss the notion that Stalin would have struck at Germany first.
Chairs,
I believe that word I used was checkmate, not crush, tomo
I read the claims of Putin historians last year that WW2 in Europe could have been prevented if France and England had only abandoned Poland and allowed Stalin's forces to move west and checkmate Hitler - I read that statement with amazement. Not because I didn't believe that Soviet diplomats had proposed that (I believe they did) but rather because of the (current day) attempt to paint the USSR as a proactive "peace maker" in 1939 - months before M-R Pact
Check Wiki, unless you beleive that Wikipedia is controlled by Mr. Putin too
Wikipedia is not the best source to use.
It can be written and updated by anyone.
"... and Russia was left to fight singlerhanded."
Is this your understanding of history, stasoid? That Russia was fighting Germany singlehandedly.