What if...

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plan_D said:
I actually have a VHS somewhere that is called "Hitler's Britain" and makes assumptions on German rule of Great Britain using orders and paperwork from the Reich. I'll have to find it.

I have to say though, Tim. The British resistance was planned and well organised. It was set to the be largest resistance movement in Europe, and all the members had already been trained before the invasion would have taken place.

And it's spelt Scotland (One T) and Wales (No H) ... sorry, but I couldn't but notice that.

My appologies on the spelling. One of the blank spots in the Armor. Never, never been able to spell consistently well. No offense to anyone from Scotland and Wales...does this forum have a spellcheck?

As for the resistance, I had seen a show on it as well as read some on it. Not a lot. But some. I based my belief on the effects being limited on a couple of things.

1. Islands are tough to get a long running successful insurgency running, Sri Lanka not withstanding. They are relatively easy to isolate.

2. The insurgency would need to be resupplied and Britian was out of friends in Europe. Nobody would take on the Wermacht. Their reputation was well reserved. That perspective was also bound to affect the moral of the partisans. In short, "Why bother?". Maybe not immediately, but eventually.

3. The Nazis successfully supressed every active resistance movement in the West. Part of that was the controllers in England telling the active units on the continent to go passive and spend more time gathering information. The active units tended to bring on retribution in extreme forms. That retribution brought the local populace, while not on the Nazi's side, against the partisans. The only exceptions were Yugoslavia and Russia. Only when allied troops were close did the partisans become active (as much from orders from England as from their own volition- recruitment went way up when the allies got close).

4. The Germans had well organized and effective antipartisan units that hunted down active cells. They were also very good at infiltrating cells.

5. Active partisan units tended to drift towards banditry and become a law unto themselves. This did not go over well with the local population.

I conceed that this is all potential but based my perspective on the results they garnered from Holland, France, ect. Some parts of the English isles lead to a better chance for an insurgency (Northern Scotland for example), but even active insurgencies those areas had been suppressed back in the 1700s.

The potential for an isurgency to exist and succeed is directly based on the simple question, Who would help them? Europe had England during the war, but a conquered England had nobody. However, it does make for interesting speculation to consider where the war might go from there. But beyone the scope of the original question.
 
CCM von Hausser said:
I quote 100% !! Great timshatz!!! Just one more effort for you... ...if I can :p Any idea about the men to form the British Nazi Gov? :oops:

Good question. The best way to answer that one is to get a listoff of the major parties in the British Nazi party during the 30s and start picking names. You might want to insert one or two lower level royals to spice it up, but in general you would be dealing with the British Nazis. Beyond that, it is anybody's guess.

One point that would be interesting is who would be the Nazi High Commissioner in England. Hydrich? He would be a good choice and held the post in Czech/Slovak areas before being killed. England might've been the place he was sent to enact/enforce Nazi Policies.

Just a thought.
 
What if HITLER had been killed during the July 20,1944 bomb
in his bunker and Germany had surrendered to Gen. Patton and
the AMERICAN forces? What if the USA allowed the German war
machine,or what was left of it, to join the the U.K. and all
the friendly Allied forces to capture BERLIN and stop the
U.S.S.R. in their rush to secure Berlin? Would the COLD WAR
with the U.S.S.R. every have taken place? Would the IRON
CURTAIN have been built and all the trouble with RUSSIA have
ever happened. What if Gen.Patton had been elected PRESIDENT
of the USA instead of IKE EISENHOWER and Gen.MACARTHUR had
been elected as Patton's Vice President? Would the KOREA war
and the war in VIET NAM have taken place?
 
timshatz said:
Good question. The best way to answer that one is to get a listoff of the major parties in the British Nazi party during the 30s and start picking names. You might want to insert one or two lower level royals to spice it up, but in general you would be dealing with the British Nazis. Beyond that, it is anybody's guess.
Right :oops: I simply didn't think about it before :lol:

timshatz said:
One point that would be interesting is who would be the Nazi High Commissioner in England. Hydrich? He would be a good choice and held the post in Czech/Slovak areas before being killed. England might've been the place he was sent to enact/enforce Nazi Policies.

Just a thought.
uhm... I'm not sure about it. If we talk about History all is possible, but if I think about my idea, my project about the HoI2 Game, this is a very hard way cause Paradox policy about some "episodes" and "concepts" of the WWII. So, just talking about History, Hydrich maybe was a candidate, but I think that will be better to choose a man most near to the ENG culture cause ENG was seen like a natural GER partener... or I mistake?
 
RonRyan85 said:
What if HITLER had been killed during the July 20,1944 bomb in his bunker and Germany had surrendered to Gen. Patton and
the AMERICAN forces? What if the USA allowed the German war
machine,or what was left of it, to join the the U.K. and all
the friendly Allied forces to capture BERLIN and stop the
U.S.S.R. in their rush to secure Berlin? Would the COLD WAR
with the U.S.S.R. every have taken place? Would the IRON
CURTAIN have been built and all the trouble with RUSSIA have
ever happened. What if Gen.Patton had been elected PRESIDENT
of the USA instead of IKE EISENHOWER and Gen.MACARTHUR had
been elected as Patton's Vice President? Would the KOREA war
and the war in VIET NAM have taken place?
Good points!!!
First of all... just few days ago I finish to read some bboks about the last days of Hitler in his bunker in Berlin. I read also about attempt of the July, 20 - 1944 and is possible that if Hitler was been killed a simil-civil war would be begin with Heer, Waffen-SS, Goering's forces and Bormann's men fighting for the leadership. Someone wants to continue to fight, some other wants the peace!!! Think about this situation with SOV Army advancing from the East and with the Allies coming from the West...
...I think that would be really a carnage for GER maybe worse than what was in reality

my 2 cents
 
CCM von Hausser said:
Right :oops: I simply didn't think about it before :lol:


uhm... I'm not sure about it. If we talk about History all is possible, but if I think about my idea, my project about the HoI2 Game, this is a very hard way cause Paradox policy about some "episodes" and "concepts" of the WWII. So, just talking about History, Hydrich maybe was a candidate, but I think that will be better to choose a man most near to the ENG culture cause ENG was seen like a natural GER partener... or I mistake?

Picked Hydrich (I'm almost positive I got the spelling wrong) because he was the Nazi's "go to guy" for projects that involved special treatment. Knowledge of English culture was not, to my mind, an overriding requirement. The Nazis may've paid lip service to England "not being their natural enemy" (whatever the hell that means) but when they were in control, they tended to strip the economy of anything that was useful to them in a fairly ruthless and efficient manner. Hydrich was a very efficient Nazi. Ambition was his prime motivator.

On the other hand, England would've quickly turned into a backwater if the US had not entered the war. The real action was going to happen in the East (one way or another Hilter was going to go after the Soviets). Hydrich would've wanted to be where it was best for him. To that end, Hydrich may not've been the choice.


SPECULATION TIME...
But if I were the Nazis, and I had control of England, I would send a guy like him to England. I know in my long term plans, the US is going to be dealt with one way or another. That said, I will need a bigger and better navy than the US Fleet to handle the other side of the Atlantic. A good chunk of that would come out of British yards. Maybe not the major combatants, but the escort type ships. That and standard merchantmen would come from England. If Russia does get conquered (a pretty big if), it will take about 3-5 years to really consolidate gains of Europe and Trans-Europe Asia. Thereafter, what else can a totalitarian system do but go to war with someone else. That would have to be North America.

Now that is where the speculation gets really interesting.
 
timshatz said:
Picked Hydrich (I'm almost positive I got the spelling wrong) because he was the Nazi's "go to guy" for projects that involved special treatment. Knowledge of English culture was not, to my mind, an overriding requirement. The Nazis may've paid lip service to England "not being their natural enemy" (whatever the hell that means) but when they were in control, they tended to strip the economy of anything that was useful to them in a fairly ruthless and efficient manner. Hydrich was a very efficient Nazi. Ambition was his prime motivator.

On the other hand, England would've quickly turned into a backwater if the US had not entered the war. The real action was going to happen in the East (one way or another Hilter was going to go after the Soviets). Hydrich would've wanted to be where it was best for him. To that end, Hydrich may not've been the choice.
Interesting, very interesting. I'm still not sure, but a large part seems possible. I'm near to go in holiday, so thanks to your words I'll have somethings to think about :p

timshatz said:
SPECULATION TIME...
But if I were the Nazis, and I had control of England, I would send a guy like him to England. I know in my long term plans, the US is going to be dealt with one way or another. That said, I will need a bigger and better navy than the US Fleet to handle the other side of the Atlantic. A good chunk of that would come out of British yards. Maybe not the major combatants, but the escort type ships. That and standard merchantmen would come from England. If Russia does get conquered (a pretty big if), it will take about 3-5 years to really consolidate gains of Europe and Trans-Europe Asia. Thereafter, what else can a totalitarian system do but go to war with someone else. That would have to be North America.

Now that is where the speculation gets really interesting.
I'm really studip man!!!!! This your "...it will take about 3-5 years to really consolidate gains of Europe and Trans-Europe Asia..." I never thought at the time factor modding the game!!!! It's so immediate, like all other classic games... thanks one more time to make me think about it :D
 
Have a great vacation. Don't stress about this stuff too much. It is all castles in the air. But fun to consider anyway.
 

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