What plane do you wish had sawservice

delcyros · May 22, 2005

Given.
Improvements worked on for the Panther. I just have a view that quantity has it´s own quality, and this benefits the T-34 more. Of course there are reasons why the Panther wasn´t produced in higher numbers, but this isn´t a what if thread or isn´t it?
The T-34 was unmatched in 1941,42 and most of 1943, also. The reason why so much of them have been destroyed is originated in superior tactics used by the german crews. That´s why even a good Pz-III has a reasonable chance to get a T-34 kill. However, the T-34 was a fearsome vehicle, and it wasn´t prior to the introduction of Pz-IV-F that the germans could fight on equal terms with it.
And while the Panther was improved it never reached the rate of reliability common for T-34. In my view it lacked a powerful Diesel engine.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 22, 2005

That is about all it lacked was an engine. Personally Id go with a King Tiger anyday.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 22, 2005

That is about all it lacked was an engine. Personally Id go with a King Tiger anyday.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 22, 2005

That is about all it lacked was an engine. Personally Id go with a King Tiger anyday.

plan_D · May 22, 2005

As soon as the Germans introduced the Pz. Kpfw IV Ausf F/2 the T-34 was quickly on it's way out. The Germans could fight on equal terms with a superior armament.

The Panther was not as reliable as the T-34 but the T-34 was not as amazingly reliable as people like to think. Over rough terrain the poor build would actually start to shake the tank to pieces. They would break down quite often but the simple build would allow them to be fixed quickly.

The fact of the matter is, the T-34 was in quantity but the Panther would knock out 4-5 T-34s before being knocked out itself.

The T-34 was the best tank in the world in 1940-'41 but by 1942 it had already started losing it's edge. By 1943 only numbers kept it on the field of battle.

The T-34 was the same as the M4 Sherman. Numbers were the only advantage. On paper the T-34/85 was better than the M4A8 (76W) but in post-war conflicts, the Sherman always came out on top!

Personally, I'd rather be in a Pz. Kpfw V Ausf G 'Panther' - it's practically invincible to any first hits and it'll safely destroy anything that hits it. The only foreign tanks capable of fighting with it on equal ground was the US M26, British A34 and Soviet IS-2.

MP-Willow · May 23, 2005

Well now that we seem to have our tank ich scratched, I hopw we could wind our way back to the topic. Anyone have thoughts of the USAAC's bat? Or Consolidated's Model 31

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 24, 2005

True we need to get back on topic!

Are you talking about the McDonnald Douglas XP-67? If so, I think it was a good design and had potential. It carried one heck of a punch too. If the prototype had not caught fire, it may have gotten somewhere. I think the end of the war though pretty much ended its chances.

Type: Long Range Fighter
Origin: McDonnel Aircraft Corporation
Crew: One
Model: XP-67
First Flight: January 6, 1944
Production: 1 Prototype

Engine:
Model: Continental XI-1430-17/19
Type: 12-Cylinder inverted-Vee aircooled engine
Number: Two Horsepower: 1,350 hp

Dimensions:
Wing span: 55 ft. 0 in.
Length: 44 ft. 9.25 in.
Height: 15 ft. 9 in.
Lifting Surface Area: 414 sq. ft.

Weights:
Empty: 17,745 lb.
Loaded: 22,114 lb.
Maximum: 25,400 lb.

Performance:
Maximum Speed: 405 mph at 25,000 ft.
Maximum Speed: 357 mph at 10,000 ft.
Maximum Climb Rate: 2,600 ft./min.
Service Ceiling: 37,400
Maximum Range: 2,385 miles

Armament: Proposed
Six 37mm M4 cannon mounted in wing roots
Ammunition: 45 rounds per gun.

delcyros · May 24, 2005

Nice Info, Adler.

I always liked the design, just from an aesthetic point of view. But indeed it was nothing close to a superb fighter. Too heavy to be maneuverable, a large target to hit and with it´s slow climb rate even not suited for interceptions. I wonder what sorties it would field. Ground attacks? Ship busting? All possible. However it really is a beautiful design and who knows? Better engines could provide the performance needed for this plane...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 24, 2005

I agree with. I think it had potential but needed to be worked.

Glider · May 24, 2005

A slightly different suggestion is the Martin Baker 5 which test flew in May 1944. Strongly suggest that it would wipe the floor with everything, 460mph at 20,000. The main thing that stopped it was that the flight of the Meteor and the recognition that the jet was the future.

For the Gun worshipers you could try the Martin Baker 3 with 6 x 20mm. Enough to turn any plane to dust

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 26, 2005

I will agree with you on that. The Martin Baker 5 could have been a great aircraft but I dont like the way she looked, I prefer the M.B. 3.

delcyros · May 26, 2005

It surely would have played a role comparable to the introduction of the Fw 190. Great Plane, indeed!
However, the jet was the future, no doubt and even this great piston engined plane would have seen itself in defensive facing jets.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 26, 2005

Very true. That is why most of the late war lets say 1945 piston engine aircraft were dropped because of development of jet fighters.

superunknown · May 26, 2005

I wish the Westland Welkin had seen service, it was basically a larger version of the Whirlwind with Merlin engines. I have done an aircraft profile for the database on the Whirlwind but it hasn't been put up yet.

mosquitoman · May 26, 2005

Problem was the niche for the Welkin was being filled by the Hornet and the Mosquito while it was being developed

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 27, 2005

And the mosquito did it just fine.

superunknown · May 27, 2005

Bear in mind that the Whirlwind was already in the air while the Mossie had only just been drawn up. Whirlwind first flight - October 1938, Mosquito first flight - November 1940. Plus the Mosquito was built as a daytime bomber, where as the Whirlwind was built as a fighter. The only thing that stopped the development into the Welkin was the fact that the MOD wasn't convinced that they needed a 2 engined fighter, same goes for the early development of the Mosquito.

mosquitoman · May 27, 2005

The Whirlwind would have been great if they gave it some half decent engines- the Peregrines it had were useless

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 27, 2005

I am not sure how well she would have faired anyhow?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · May 27, 2005

Okay that post was meant to be before yours, so yes that is what I was getting at.

What plane do you wish had sawservice

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