What plane do you wish had sawservice

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When Italy exited the war in September of 1943, their Fiat G.55, Regianne Re.2005 and to a lesser extent, Macchi 205 were equals to anything the allies had.

In German tests conducted in early 1943, the G.55 in particular was competetive with the Me-109 and FW-190 at lower altitudes and had "superior" handling characteristics at higher altitides. I haven't been able to confirm this but have read that the Germans at one point were considering the G.55/56 as a potential replacement for the Me-109.

All three Series five aircraft were widely considered as being able to hold their own against P-51's.
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In December 1942 a technical commission of the Regia Aeronautica was invited by Luftwaffe to test some German aircrafts in Rechlin. The visit was part of a joint plan for the standardization of the Axis aircraft production. In the same time some Luftwaffe officers visited Guidonia where they were particularly interested in the performances promised by the Serie 5's. On December 9 these impressions were discussed in a Luftwaffe staff meeting and rised the interest of Goering itself.

In February 1943 a German test commission was sent in Italy to evaluate the new Italian fighters. The commission was led by Oberst Petersen and was formed by Luftwaffe officiers and pilots nad by technical personnel, among them the Flugbaumeister Malz. The Germans carried with them also several aircrafts included a Fw190A and a Me109G for direct comparison tests in simulated dogfights.

The tests began February 20. The German commission, not without a certain surprise, was very impressed by the Italian aircrafts, the G55 in particular. In general, all the Serie 5's were very good at low altitudes, but the G55 was competitive with its German opponents also in term of speed and climb rate at high altitudes still maintaining superior handling characteristics. The definitive evaluation by the German commission was "excellent" for the G55, "good" for the Re2005 and "average" for the MC205. Oberst Petersen defined the G55 "the best fighter in the Axis" and immediately telegraphed his impressions to Goering. After listening the recommendations of Petersen, Milch and Galland, a meeting held by Goering on February 22 voted to produce the G55 in Germany.

The interest of the Germans, apart from the good test results, derived also from the development possibilities they was able to see in the G55 and in the Re2005. For the Re2005 the German interest resulted in the provision of an original DB605 with the new WM injection. This engine and a VDM propeller were installed on the MM495 prototype that was acquired by Luftwaffe and tested in Rechlin. The aircraft reached 700 km/h during a test with a German pilot, but the airframe was not judged sufficiently strong for these performances.

The G55 was bigger and heavier and was considered a very good candidate for the new DB603 engine. Other visits were organized in Germany during March and May 1943 in Rechlin and Berlin. The G55 was again tested at Rechlin at the presence of Milch. Gabrielli and other FIAT personalities were invited to visit German factories and to discuss the evolution of the aircraft. The specifications of the German G55/II included the DB603 engine, five 20 mm guns and a pressurized cockpit. The suggestion of weapons in the wings, limited to one 20 mm gun for each wing, originated the final configuration of the Serie I, while the 603 engine was succesfully installed in the G56 prototypes.

As a concrete results of the German interest in the G55, the Luftwaffe acquired three complete G55 Sottoserie 0 airframes (MM91064-65-66) for evaluations and experiments giving in change three DB603 engines and original machinery for the setup of other production lines of the DB605/RA1050 RC58 I. Two of the Luftwaffe G55's remained in Turin, at the Aeritalia plants, where they were used by German and Italian engineers to study the planned modifications and the possible optimizations to the production process. Later these two were converted to Serie I and delivered to the ANR. The third one was transferred to Rechlin for tests and experiments in Germany. The DB603 engines were used to build the G56 prototypes.

The interest in the G55 program was still high after the Armistice: in October 1943 Kurt Tank, who previously personally tested a G55 in Rechlin, was in Turin to discuss about the G55 production. However, war events and the not yet optimized production process were the reasons for which the G55 program was eventually abandoned by the Luftwaffe. Early produced G55's required about 15000 manhours; while there were estimations to reduce the effort to about 9000 manhours, the German factories were able to assemble a Bf109 in only 5000 manhours.
 
I just want to note that Italy exited the war in September of 1943 so comparing aircraft that appeared later is a bit like apples and oranges.

Also, these Italian planes were no less Italian by virtue of having German engines built under license than say, the P-51 was less American by virtue of having an English engine built under license.
 
The P-38 was in service before the war started in 1939.

The fact that the most successful Mustangs were Merlin engined doesn't take away that they were an American design but it does show that the American design wouldn't have been so good without a foreign engine.

The same applies for Italian designs. If they didn't have German engines they would have been useless.

The Spitfire however was all British!
 
I think so. It would probably have only been early J models at that time, and P-38's didnt really become formidable fighters until the late model J's and L's.
 
They were formidable almost from the start. The major problem with Italian fighters is their pilots. They may have been better but a Spitfire Mk.IX or Fw-190A could both hang with a 5 series.

They weren't so drastically advanced that the Allied or Axis forces were going to take the design.
 
Yeah I admit Italian pilots werent all that good. They had some credible pilots though, if Adriano Visconti was let loose in one it would have been an effective combinatin.
 
Very few crediable pilots. The vast majority were probably worse than VVS pilots.
 
If they have low damage tolerance, they also can't take a lot of stress on the air frame. That would greatly reduce the effectiveness in combat of the aircraft.

It can't pull a tight turn if the wing starts falling off.
 
I was talking at quite high speeds. Turning tight at low speeds doesn't put a tremendous amount of G force on the wings. That is why the Zero could only turn tightly at low speeds, any higher than 275 mph and the airelons became stiff because of G force.
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said, "I still dont think the aircraft could hang with a Fw-190 even with an experienced pilot."

Why? It was specifically flown against the FW-190.

" In general, all the Serie 5's were very good at low altitudes, but the G55 was competitive with its German opponents also in term of speed and climb rate at high altitudes still maintaining superior handling characteristics."

"Oberst Petersen defined the G55 "the best fighter in the Axis" and immediately telegraphed his impressions to Goering. After listening the recommendations of Petersen, Milch and Galland, a meeting held by Goering on February 22 voted to produce the G55 in Germany"

Plan_D said, "They weren't so drastically advanced that the Allied or Axis forces were going to take the design."

"The interest of the Germans, apart from the good test results, derived also from the development possibilities they was able to see in the G55 and in the Re2005."

"The interest in the G55 program was still high after the Armistice: in October 1943 Kurt Tank, who previously personally tested a G55 in Rechlin, was in Turin to discuss about the G55 production. However, war events and the not yet optimized production process were the reasons for which the G55 program was eventually abandoned by the Luftwaffe."
 
That appears to be the case. I understand that the Fiat G.55 Centauro was being considered to replace the Me-109 as a front line fighter (again, I can't confirm) but:

"Early produced G55's required about 15000 manhours; while there were estimations to reduce the effort to about 9000 manhours, the German factories were able to assemble a Bf109 in only 5000 manhours.
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Davidicus, that was some nice info on the Series 5 planes. I a a little sad the 205 was rated so poorly, but that is ok. They were never really given a lot of chances to show the world what the designs chould do. Also if the Germans used more of the Italian designs think of the planes that could be sent to Russia or to England ;)
 

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