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Based on the size? I'd guess it was for C-141. I was just amazed there was zero effort made for preservation or corrosion control.
The 141 tooling was USAF property, and they told Lockheed they did not want to pay to have it stored safely. Lockheed even proposed a bomber version of the C-141 to try to keep the line open. Several years later, when the C-5A was found to be too expensive and too complex to be the "everything" airlifter, the Air Force was wishing it could have bought some more 141's.
Think of what happens to plaster when left outside in the rain. The masters were ruined so there was no way to check whether the tooling still matched the plaster masters. The C-130 nose section tooling was suspected of having been damaged during shipment from California to Georgia because there were problems with parts not fitting well. All the tooling is government owned so if they don't fund preservation, there isn't any. Even if the space isn't needed for something else, Lockheed can't store old tooling inside a building unless it pays rent for the space (Marietta is Air Force Plant 6 and once an area in a building is vacated and roped off as deactivated, the AF stops charging rent on the space). When there is a need for some old tooling and it is found to still exist it is often because it was "abandoned in place" by the govt and Lockheed just shoved it outside because there was no budget to scrap it, preserve it or anything else. Someone who had worked in Tooling at the start of C-5B production said they had to spray threaded adjusters with Kroil then soak rags in Kroil and wrap them around the threaded joints so they would soak for days with the Kroil penetrating and they would finally manage to break them loose. In the late 1980's there might have been some forgotten C-141 tooling still outside but most of that had been scrapped. There also could have been C-130 tooling as there was extra tooling left over from the high production rates of the 1960's. Some of that was stored inside. The govt does try to decide what tooling is likely to be needed for future spares and preserve it. Selected C-5 tooling was sent to Davis-Monthan so it could be stored outside without preservation. There was no budget to catalog where it was stored so when a tool is needed for spares someone has to walk around until they find it.Based on the size? I'd guess it was for C-141. I was just amazed there was zero effort made for preservation or corrosion control.
I worked for CALAC (1980-1990) when did this occur? Early in the program?The C-130 nose section tooling was suspected of having been damaged during shipment from California to Georgia because there were problems with parts not fitting well.
Think of what happens to plaster when left outside in the rain. The masters were ruined so there was no way to check whether the tooling still matched the plaster masters. The C-130 nose section tooling was suspected of having been damaged during shipment from California to Georgia because there were problems with parts not fitting well. All the tooling is government owned so if they don't fund preservation, there isn't any. Even if the space isn't needed for something else, Lockheed can't store old tooling inside a building unless it pays rent for the space (Marietta is Air Force Plant 6 and once an area in a building is vacated and roped off as deactivated, the AF stops charging rent on the space). When there is a need for some old tooling and it is found to still exist it is often because it was "abandoned in place" by the govt and Lockheed just shoved it outside because there was no budget to scrap it, preserve it or anything else. Someone who had worked in Tooling at the start of C-5B production said they had to spray threaded adjusters with Kroil then soak rags in Kroil and wrap them around the threaded joints so they would soak for days with the Kroil penetrating and they would finally manage to break them loose. In the late 1980's there might have been some forgotten C-141 tooling still outside but most of that had been scrapped. There also could have been C-130 tooling as there was extra tooling left over from the high production rates of the 1960's. Some of that was stored inside. The govt does try to decide what tooling is likely to be needed for future spares and preserve it. Selected C-5 tooling was sent to Davis-Monthan so it could be stored outside without preservation. There was no budget to catalog where it was stored so when a tool is needed for spares someone has to walk around until they find it.
First C-130 was built in Burbank, then tooling was shipped via the Panama Canal to Savannah, Georgia and on to Marietta about 1954. Old timers said that people complained for years about parts on the nose section not fitting properly and suggested that the tooling may have been damaged in shipment but management insisted that there was no problem. When management finally agreed to have the tooling checked, the plaster masters had all deteriorated from outside storage so there was nothing to check the tooling against. Within the past twenty years, the area around the crew entry door was scanned so that an accurate 3D CAD model could be constructed and the area redesigned to eliminate fit problems. If you ever worked C-130's and thought the crew entry door emergency jettison was Mickey Mouse, the story was that the flight crew said they wouldn't fly without an emergency exit and the door jettison system was designed "overnight" so they could get first flight done.I worked for CALAC (1980-1990) when did this occur? Early in the program?
Great info and sounds like like something that would have happened during that period. I was a supplier QA rep on the P-3 and we had tooling issues later in the program after the production of the aircraft was moved from Burbank to Palmdale and a whole bunch of senior people retired. We were building P-3s for the Australians and they were pointing out fit issues at the bomb bay doors and between the elevators and horizontal stabilizers. Turned out several form blocks for structural components were made against outer mold lines in lieu of inner mold lines on tooling drawings and those assembling these components were hand fitting them to make them work. I was in a meeting with tool designers and inspectors who actually made these items and it was almost comical watching them argue with each other on errors that were made 20 years earlier.First C-130 was built in Burbank, then tooling was shipped via the Panama Canal to Savannah, Georgia and on to Marietta about 1954. Old timers said that people complained for years about parts on the nose section not fitting properly and suggested that the tooling may have been damaged in shipment but management insisted that there was no problem. When management finally agreed to have the tooling checked, the plaster masters had all deteriorated from outside storage so there was nothing to check the tooling against. Within the past twenty years, the area around the crew entry door was scanned so that an accurate 3D CAD model could be constructed and the area redesigned to eliminate fit problems. If you ever worked C-130's and thought the crew entry door emergency jettison was Mickey Mouse, the story was that the flight crew said they wouldn't fly without an emergency exit and the door jettison system was designed "overnight" so they could get first flight done.
You might be amused to hear that when the P-3 tooling was moved to Marietta, management decided that it all needed to be repainted in a different color. There were all sorts of handwritten notes on the tooling about how to make things work and they all got painted over. But it looked really good with the new paint.Great info and sounds like like something that would have happened during that period. I was a supplier QA rep on the P-3 and we had tooling issues later in the program after the production of the aircraft was moved from Burbank to Palmdale and a whole bunch of senior people retired. We were building P-3s for the Australians and they were pointing out fit issues at the bomb bay doors and between the elevators and horizontal stabilizers. Turned out several form blocks for structural components were made against outer mold lines in lieu of inner mold lines on tooling drawings and those assembling these components were hand fitting them to make them work. I was in a meeting with tool designers and inspectors who actually made these items and it was almost comical watching them argue with each other on errors that were made 20 years earlier.
Bingo!!
I contract to various businesses and see this change all the time. When I go to a business with a manager who has years of experience it is easy if there is a problem.
We solve it. When I go to businesses who hire people to manage in their early twenties because they have completed a bachelor of business degree it is more a case
of them telling me why it is not their problem. One even said she was going to call head office to complain because I went in to ask to see the store room (as instructed)
just to inventory what was there - why complain - because it was inappropriate for me to ask her ?? In other words I am the manager so I don't .... something ??
One unfortunate example of sales/marketing managers getting control of product line policy (deadly) was Hewlett Packard. From years in computing HP (high price) was
always amongst the best. Yes, not cheap but definitely a case of getting what you paid for. Computers and printers were solid stuff that was also kept up to date.
You might be amused to hear that when the P-3 tooling was moved to Marietta, management decided that it all needed to be repainted in a different color. There were all sorts of handwritten notes on the tooling about how to make things work and they all got painted over. But it looked really good with the new paint.
Par for the course!You might be amused to hear that when the P-3 tooling was moved to Marietta, management decided that it all needed to be repainted in a different color. There were all sorts of handwritten notes on the tooling about how to make things work and they all got painted over. But it looked really good with the new paint.
Fred FactorOMG!!! Too Funny! I remember they couldn't get the nose radome to fit, and this occurred out of nowhere. For weeks they blamed the subcontractor (Canadair) but in the end it was discovered the guy who installed the radomes for 10 years just retired and he took his secrets with him.