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Did Britain consider other options than the Spitfire for the FAA? The RN needs a new fighter, eventually one introduced in April 1943 with folding wings. Would this simply be greater and earlier deployment of the Firefly?
The Sea Hurricane was already in service when the Spitfire was being considered. Sea Hurricane entered fleet service in Jan 1941, compared to the Seafire's fleet introduction in June 1942.Other options were considered - such as the Sea Hurricane.
The Sea Hurricane was already in service when the Spitfire was being considered. Sea Hurricane entered fleet service in Jan 1941, compared to the Seafire's fleet introduction in June 1942.
Are you suggesting extending and expanding the Sea Hurricane's service was considered? Was a folding wing version in the works? All three Illustrious and Ark Royal would not be able to stow it otherwise. Was the Sea Hurricane competitive into 1943?
To be clear folks, I'm not seeking a What'If thread, this is the wrong place. I'm curious about what was considered along with the Spitfire, not what should or could have been.
IIRC Fairey was asked to build a naval Spitfire. Fairey responded withe the Firefly which got a contract.
Resp:Did Britain consider other options than the Spitfire for the FAA? The RN needs a new fighter, eventually one introduced in April 1943 with folding wings. If the Air Ministry or WC prevented a navalized Spitfire would this simply be greater and earlier deployment of the Firefly? What happens to the Sea Hurricane? Was the Typhoon and its unreliable Sabre considered?
Same as today, with the RAF controlling the FAA's fighter aircraft. Lessons forgotten I think.Resp:
Years ago I read where the Air Ministry (?) decided against creating separate air panels for the RAF and FAA. Prefering to have one panel for the two separate air forces. The result is that the FAA suffered from not having a Naval fighter designed/built from the ground up. Hence, the FAA's dependence upon USA's Corsair/Hellcat.
The Sea Hurricane was already in service when the Spitfire was being considered. Sea Hurricane entered fleet service in Jan 1941, compared to the Seafire's fleet introduction in June 1942.
Are you suggesting extending and expanding the Sea Hurricane's service was considered? Was a folding wing version in the works? All three Illustrious and Ark Royal would not be able to stow it otherwise. Was the Sea Hurricane competitive into 1943?
To be clear folks, I'm not seeking a What'If thread, this is the wrong place. I'm curious about what was considered along with the Spitfire, not what should or could have been.
I'd dispute the Sea Hurricane is better than the Wildcat bit. It was a readily available alternative.Hawker designed a folding wing for the Sea Hurricane, but I've never seen additional details. The Sea Hurricane II was considerably superior to the Martlet/F4F-4 and was the highest performing Allied naval fighter, after the Seafire, until the F6F shows up in mid 1943.
It was, most probably, the promise of US naval fighters that limited the development of UK aircraft, especially the Sea Hurricane.
I was going to post the Winkle Brown report after he'd flown both, but suffice to say, both the Wildcat and Sea Hurricane were about equal to the point that pilot skill decides the day. Neither of them can turn with a Zeke.I'd dispute the Sea Hurricane is better than the Wildcat bit. It was a readily available alternative.
I was going to post the Winkle Brown report after he'd flown both, but suffice to say, both the Wildcat and Sea Hurricane were about equal to the point that pilot skill decides the day. Neither of them can turn with a Zeke.
The Sea Hurricane 1B was ~7000lb and developed ~1300 (12lb) to 1440hp (16lb boost). The F4F-4 was 7975lb, had 1200hp and the same wing area. Do the math.I'd dispute the Sea Hurricane is better than the Wildcat bit. It was a readily available alternative.
Resp:Same as today, with the RAF controlling the FAA's fighter aircraft. Lessons forgotten I think.
The Wildcat was the better aircraft for carrier ops, was rugged, and had a decent dive performance. Later variants had 1350 HP. Against the Zero, I'd choose the Wildcat. Against an Me 110, I'd choose a Sea Hurricane.The Sea Hurricane 1B was ~7000lb and developed ~1300 (12lb) to 1440hp (16lb boost). The F4F-4 was 7975lb, had 1200hp and the same wing area. Do the math.
The Wildcat was the better aircraft for carrier ops, was rugged, and had a decent dive performance. Later variants had 1350 HP. Against the Zero, I'd choose the Wildcat. Against an Me 110, I'd choose a Sea Hurricane.
Of course the Martlet was the better aircraft for RN carrier ops over the Hurricane because the former has folding wings. The latter was thus unable to operate from all three Illustrious class or Hermes. Only the wider forward lift on HMS Ark Royal (had she survived long enough) and Indomitable could accommodate the Sea Hurricane, at a 45' angle. All three Outrageous class, both Implacables, Eagle and Argus could also fit the Sea Hurricane.The Wildcat was the better aircraft for carrier ops, was rugged....
Damned spellchecker, but Outrageous not Courageous class, cool. Almost as good as when we left the EU, the words, good riddance, not goodbye was used, but being Brits we laughed.'Thank you, goodbye & good riddance!' EU delivers comical parting shot to UK, as final message gets lost in translation – mediaOf course the Martlet was the better aircraft for RN carrier ops over the Hurricane because the former has folding wings. The latter was thus unable to operate from all three Illustrious class or Hermes. Only the wider forward lift on HMS Ark Royal (had she survived long enough) and Indomitable could accommodate the Sea Hurricane, at a 45' angle. All three Outrageous class, both Implacables, Eagle and Argus could also fit the Sea Hurricane.
But for ruggedness, I'd argue the Sea Hurricane has the Wildcat matched. Looking at vids of the Sea Hurricane, my impression was it was also sufficiently rugged for carrier ops. Of course they're both better than the Seafire.
Hawker Sea Hurricane carrier take off and landings
I can't claim the name, but I use it intentionally. Furious, Courageous and Glorious, as originally built as cruisers are indeed referred to as the Outrageous class.Damned spellchecker, but Outrageous not Courageous class, cool.