What were the standard bomb weights used in ETO and PTO

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Good info there everyone.

Does anyone know of any German projects for larger bombs other than the ones that I posted up there?

 

[Jank]

Aniother forum member mentioned that the P-47N was designed to handle 1,600 poud bombs under each wing plus a 500 pounder under the fuselage. 3,700 pounds That's a quite a bomb load.

 

[Hop]

USAAF bombs dropped, by type:

http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/aafsd/aafsd_pdf/t137.pdf
http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/aafsd/aafsd_pdf/t138.pdf
http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/afhra/wwwroot/aafsd/aafsd_pdf/t139.pdf

Of the bombs over 1,000 lbs, the USAAF dropped:

weight number
4,500 - 158
4,000 - 1,220
2,000 - 64,962
1,600 - 1,122 (the 1,600 lb bomb was an armour piercing type, the others HE)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Aniother forum member mentioned that the P-47N was designed to handle 1,600 poud bombs under each wing plus a 500 pounder under the fuselage. 3,700 pounds That's a quite a bomb load.

Actually I believe the P-47N was actually designed as a long range fighter to operate in the Pacific. It had strengthened landing gear and larger wing span and wing area. The wing increase was designed to carry and additional 2 fuel tanks 93 US gallons or 352 liters each. Optionally it could carry one one 91 Imp gal (110 US gal, 416 liters) underfuselage and two 249 Imp gal (300 US gal, 1.136 liters) underwing drop tanks. This increased the range to 2,350 miles (3.781 km) and an indurance of 9 hours and 36 minutes.

 

[R Leonard]

And now, let us not forget the Japanese . . .

Type // Designation // Weight (Kg)
Land // Number 6 (General Land) // 63.5
Land // Type 97-Number 6 (General Land) // 60.4
Land // Type 3-Number 6-Model 1-Modification 1 (General Land) // 56.5
Land // Type 2-Number 6-Model 5 (General Land) // 56.5
Land // Number 25-Modification 1 (General Land) // 258
Land // Type 98-Number 25 (General Land) // 242.2
Land // Type 98-Number25-Model 1 (General Land) // 242.2
Land // Type 98-Number25-Model 1-Modification 1 (General Land) // 242.2
Land // Type 3-Number 25-Model 1 (General Land) // 239.4
Land // Number 80 (General Land) // 805
Land // Number 80-Modification 1 (General Land) // 805
Ordinary // Type 99-Number 6-Model 1 // 62.8
Ordinary // Number 6 // 63
Ordinary // Number 6 Model 1 // 63
Ordinary // Number 6 Model 2 // 63
Ordinary // Type 99-Number 25-Model 1 // 251.1
Ordinary // Type 99-Number 25-Model 1 // 248.7
Ordinary // Number 25-Model 2 // 25
Ordinary // Number 25-Model 2-Modification 1 // 25
Ordinary // Number 50-Model 2 // 507
Ordinary // Type 2-Model 50-Model 1 // 491
Ordinary // Number 80-Model 1-Modification 2,3, 4 // 607.5
Ordinary // Number 80-Model 2-Modification 2,3, 4 // 607.5
Special // Number 6-Mark 1 (Special Land) // 69
Special // Type 1-Number 6-Mark 1 (Special Land) // 69
Special // Type 4-Model 4 (Special Land) // 69
Special // Type 99-Number 6-Mark 2 (Special Anti-submarine) // 63.6
Special // Type 99-Number 6-Mark 2-Modification 1 (Special Anti-submarine) // 67.9
Special // Experimental 19-Number 25-Mark 2 (Special, Anti submarine) // 180
Special // Type 1-Number 25-Mark 2-Model 1 (Special, Anti submarine // 266
Special // Type 1-Number 25-Mark 2-Model 1-Modification 1 (Special, Anti submarine // 266
Special // Type 99-Number 3-Mark 3 (Special, Air-to-Air) // 33.7
Special // Type 99-Number 3-Mark 3-Modification 1 (Special, Air-to-Air) // 33.7
Special // Type 3-Number 6-Mark3-Model 1 (Special, Air-to-Air) // 56.6
Special // Type 2-Number 25-Mark 3-Model 1 (Special, Airfields) // 246
Special // Type 2-Number 25-Mark 3-Model 1-Modification 1 (Special, Airfields) // 246
Special // Type 2-Number 25-Mark 3-Model 2 (Special, Airfields) // 251.8
Special // Type 3-Number 25-Model 1-Mark 4 (Special, Antiship, rocket) // 315
Special // Type 99-Number 80-Mark 5 (Special, Armored capital ships) // 796.8
Special // Type 2-Number 80-Mark 5-Model 1 (Special, Armored capital ships) // 811.2
Special // Type 3-Number 150-Mark 5 (Special, Heavy armored ships) // 1498.6
Special // Type 98-Number 7-Mark 6-Model 1 (Special, Large concrete buildings) // 71.9
Special // Type 98-Number 7-Mark 6-Model 2 (Special, Warehouses and dwellings) // 66
Special // Type 1-Number 7-Mark 6-Model 3 (Special, Buildings, general) // 67.1
Special // Type 1-Number 7-Mark 6-Model 3-Modification 1 (Special, Buildings, general) // 67.1
Special // Type 3-Number 25-Mark 8 (Special, Anti ship) // 280
Special // Type 3-Number 80-Mark 8 (Special, Anti ship) // 850
Special // Type 5-Number 1-Mark 9 (Special, Surfaced submarines, landing craft) // 13
Special // Type 5-Number 6-Mark 9 (Special, Landing craft) // 84
Special // Type 2-Number 6-Model 1-Mark 21 (Special, Airfields) (Cluster) // 52.5
Special // Type 2-Number 6-Model 2-Mark 21 (Special, Airfields) (Cluster) // 52.5
Special // Type 3-Number 6-Mark-23-Model 1 (Special, airfields) // 62.5
Special // Type 3-Number 6-Mark 27-Model 1 (Special, Air-to-air) // 60
Special // Type 3-Number 1-Mark 21-Model 1 (Special, Air-to-air, rocket) // 7.65
Special // Type 5-Number 25-Mark 29 (Special, Air-to-air) // 250
Special // Type 3-Number 25-Model 1-Mark 31 (Special, Airfields and landing operations) // 190
Special // Type 3-Number 80-Model 1-Mark 31 (Special, Airfields and landing operations) // 676.08
Special // Type 5-Number 25-Mark 33 (Special, Airfields and landing operations) // 320
Miscellaneous // Type 3-Number 6 (Target Marker) // 70.3
Miscellaneous // Number 3-Model 2 (Smoke) // unknown
Miscellaneous // Type 99-Number 1-Model 2 (Smoke) // unknown
Miscellaneous // Type 99-Number 6 (Smoke) // unknown
Miscellaneous // Type 99-Number 3-Models 1 and 2 (Practice) // 30
Miscellaneous // Type 99-Number 1-Modifications 1, 2, and 3 (Practice) // 4
Miscellaneous // Type 99-Number 1-Model 1-Modifications 1, 2, and 3 (Practice) // 1

Regards,

Rich

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Wow thanks for the list, but it does not seem that the Japs had very big bombs at all. The most of them being quit small it seems compared to the other major combatants.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

well they didn't really have a wide arsenal of heavy bombers and most of their planes were pretty lightweight.........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Very true.

 

[Lunatic]

R. Lenord,

That list cannot be complete. I know the Japanese used bombs in the 1700 lbs class at Perl Harbor. These were AP bombs designed specifically for destroying capital ships.

Lanc,

The Napalm bombs are not on your list. The RAF dropped a large number of napalm bombs on targets such as Dresden.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i don't believe they did, RAF bomber command didn't carry them, not according to the bomber command handbook that is............

 

[R Leonard]

Lunatic -

Weights listed are in kilograms.

Convert, oh, say, a Special Type 2-Number 80-Mark 5-Model 1 at 811.2 Kg to pounds (avdp) and you get and you get 1,788.39 pounds (or so says my metric converter).

Rich

 

[wmaxt]

R. Lenord,

That list cannot be complete. I know the Japanese used bombs in the 1700 lbs class at Perl Harbor. These were AP bombs designed specifically for destroying capital ships.

Lanc,

The Napalm bombs are not on your list. The RAF dropped a large number of napalm bombs on targets such as Dresden.

=S=

Lunatic

Also the AP bombs dropped on the battleships were 16" AP naval shells with fins attached.

wmaxt

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not sure on that Lanc. I know the RAF and USAAF dropped incinderies but not sure on what type they were.

The railway yards, near the centre of Dresden, had been targeted and bombed twice before the night of February 13 by the USAAF Eighth Air Force in daytime raids: on October 7, 1944 with 70 tons of high-explosive bombs, and then again with 133 bombers on January 16, 1945 during which 279 tons of high-explosives and 41 tons of incendiaries were dropped.[12]

The firebombing campaign should have begun with an USAAF Eighth Air Force raid on Dresden on February 13 but bad weather over Europe prevented any American operations. So it fell to RAF Bomber Command to carry out the first raid. During the evening of February 13 796 Avro Lancasters and 9 De Havilland Mosquitoes were dispatched in two separate waves and dropped 1,478 tons of high explosive and 1,182 tons of incendiary bombs by the early hours of February 14. The first attack was carried out entirely by No. 5 Group, using their own low-level marking methods, which allowed the first bombs to be released over Dresden at 22:14 (CET?) with all but one bomber releasing all their bombs within two minutes. This last Lancaster bomber of No 5 group dropped its bombs at 22:22. A band of cloud still remained in the area and this attack, in which 244 Lancasters dropped more than 800 tons of bombs, was only moderately successful.[13]

The second attack, 3 hours later, was an all-Lancaster attack by aircraft of 1, 3, 6 and 8 Groups, with 8 Group providing standard Pathfinder marking. The weather had by then cleared and 529 Lancasters dropped more than 1,800 tons of bombs with great accuracy between 01:21 and 01:45. RAF casualties on the two raids were 6 Lancasters lost, with 2 more crashed in France and 1 in England[14].

Later on 14th from 12:17 until 12:30 311 American B-17s dropped 771 tons of bombs on Dresden, with the railway yards as their aiming point. "Part of the American Mustang-fighter escort was ordered to strafe traffic on the roads around Dresden to increase the chaos"[15]. There are reports that civilians fleeing the firestorm engulfing Dresden in February 1945 were strafed by American aircraft, but these claims have been refuted by recent work by the historian Götz Bergander. [16][17]. During this raid there was a brief, but possibly intense dogfight between American and German fighters around Dresden, some rounds may have struck the ground and been mistaken for strafing fire[18]. The Americans continued the bombing on February 15 dropping 466 tons of bombs. During these four raids a total of around 3,900 tons of bombs were dropped.

The firebombing consisted of by-then standard methods; dropping large amounts of high-explosive to blow off the roofs to expose the timbers within buildings, followed by incendiary devices (fire-sticks) to ignite them and then more high-explosives to hamper the efforts of the fire services. This eventually created a self-sustaining firestorm with temperatures peaking at over 1500 °C. After the area caught fire, the air above the bombed area became extremely hot and rose rapidly. Cold air then rushed in at ground level from the outside and people were sucked into the fire.

After the main firebombing campaign between 13th and 15th, there were two further raids on the Dresden railway yards by the USAAF. The first was on March 2 by 406 B-17s which dropped 940 tons of high-explosive bombs and 141 tons of incendiaries. The second was on April 17 when 580 B-17s dropped 1,554 tons of high-explosive bombs and 165 tons of incendiaries.[19]

[edit]
Impact of the attack
Imageresden.jpg Out of 28,410 houses in the inner city of Dresden, 24,866 were destroyed. An area of 15 square kilometres was totally destroyed, among that: 14,000 homes, 72 schools, 22 hospitals, 18 churches, 5 theatres, 50 bank and insurance companies, 31 department stores, 31 large hotels, 62 administration buildings as well as factories such as the Ihagee camera works. In total there were 222,000 apartments in the city. 75,000 of them were totally destroyed, 11,000 severely damaged, 7,000 damaged, 81,000 slightly damaged. The city was around 300 square kilometres in area in those days. Although the main railway station was destroyed completely, the railway was working again within a few days.

The precise number of dead is difficult to ascertain and is not known. Estimates are made difficult by the fact that the city and surrounding suburbs which had a population of 642,000 in 1939[20] was crowded at that time with up to 200,000 refugees[21], and some thousands of wounded soldiers. The fate of some of the refugees is not known as they may have been killed and incinerated beyond recognition in the fire-storm, or they may have left Dresden for other places without informing the authorities. Earlier reputable estimates varied from 25,000 to more than 60,000, but historians now view around 25,000-35,000 as the likely range[22][23] with the latest (1994) research by the Dresden historian Friedrich Reichert pointing toward the lower part of this range[24]. It would appear from such estimates that the casualties suffered in the Dresden bombings were not disproportionate to those suffered by other German cities which were subject to fire raids during area attacks[25].

Contemporary official German records give a number of 21,271 registered burials, including 6,865 who were cremated on the Altmarkt.[26] There were around 25,000 officially buried dead by March 22, 1945, war related or not, according to official German report Tagesbefehl (Order of the Day) no. 47 ("TB47"). There was no registration of burials between May and September 1945.[27] War-related dead found in later years, from October 1945 to September 1957, are given as 1,557; from May 1945 until 1966, 1,858 bodies were recovered. None were found during the period 1990-1994, even though there was a lot of construction and excavation during that period. The number of people registered with the authorities as missing was 35,000; around 10,000 of those were later found to be alive.[28] In recent years, the estimates have become a little higher in Germany and lower in Britain; earlier it was the opposite.

There have been higher estimates for the number of dead, ranging as high as 300,000. They are from disputed and unreliable sources, such as the Reich Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda headed by Joseph Goebbels, Soviet historians, and David Irving, the once popular, but now discredited self-taught historian who retracted his higher estimates[29]. Both the Columbia Encyclopedia and Encarta Encyclopedia list the number as "from 35,000 to more than 135,000 dead", the higher figure of which is in line with Irving's retracted "authoritative" higher estimates.

The Nazis made use of Dresden in their propaganda efforts and promised swift retaliation. The Soviets also made propaganda use of the Dresden bombing in the early years of the Cold War to alienate the East Germans from the Americans and British.

The destruction of Dresden was comparable to that of many other German cities, with the tonnage of bombs dropped lower than in many other areas[30]. However, ideal weather conditions at the target site, the wooden-framed buildings, and "breakthroughs" linking the cellars of contiguous buildings and the lack of preparation for the effects of air-raids by Gauleiter Martin Mutschmann[31], conspired to make the attack particularly devastating. For these reasons the loss of life in Dresden was higher than many other bombing raids during World War II. For example Coventry, the English city which is now twinned with Dresden, and is often compared and contrasted with it, lost 1,236 in two separate raids in 1940. In late 2004, an RAF man involved in the raid said in an interview on the BBC's Radio 4 that another factor was the lower-than-expected level of anti-aircraft fire, which allowed a high degree of accuracy on the part of the bombers.

Overall, Anglo-American bombing of German cities claimed around 400,000 civilian lives. Whether these attacks hastened the end of the war is a controversial question. As acts of retaliation, they were at best vicarious (even if entire nations are seen as morally competent agents).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

 

[Lunatic]

i don't believe they did, RAF bomber command didn't carry them, not according to the bomber command handbook that is............

I'm pretty sure they did. I recall reading of the efforts involved in transporting and filling the empty casings. The casing was set into the bomber before being filled. I think one of the accompanying photos shows a Lancaster with hoses feeding up into the bombbays.

The problem is that as the victors we (the Allies) tend to want to re-write history and hide the fact that Napalm was used at all, especially in the ETO.

Also the British dropped a lot of US made bombs during WWII. They didn't care for the US bombs, which had larger stabalizers on them and thus less could be fit into the bombays.

In a few weeks I should hopefully be relieved and get a few weeks at home where I can look this kind of thing up. I've got a long list though...

=S=

Lunatic

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i wouldn't say we used a huge number of US bombs, we only used them for a breif period in 1944 i believe it was, i would be interested in seeing these pictures, perhaps they are in actual fact filling bomb bay fuel tanks with petrol?? i am still fairly convinced Bomber command didn't use napalm, remember there are differences between napalm and incenduries, with the british did use allot of, over 51 million...........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well either way it would be interesting and I would love to see the pics as well.

 

[Lunatic]

Well, I should be going home for some time-off at the end of this month.

I'm really looking forward to it. Aside from my computer, I have a REAL BED I'm going to get to sleep in!

 

[Glider]

I must admit that I always thought that Napalm was a ground attack weapon as opposed to a strategic weapon. I admit to not having any evidence behind it but that has been the impression that I always had.

Lunatic
Enjoy the homecoming

 

[net_sailor]

Hi, nice thread!
Could you tell me when Armour Piercing or Semi Armour Piercing bombs were available in U.S. Navy? It is possible that 500 lb AP, 500 lb SAP or 1000 lb SAP bombs could be used during battle of Midway. If not, what was the first campain when american AP or SAP bombs saw action?

 

[drgondog]

Salim -

Interesting that you indicated that the Americans used 1,600 pound bombs. That's what I was trying to confirm.

Does anyone else have any information on bombs betseen 1,000 and 2,000 pounds?

The 8th and 15th re-armed w/Soviet 1600 pounders on return legs from Shuttle Missions (Poltava, primarily) in summer 1944. I have heard of the 1,600 AP but not aware of their use in the ETO.

The biggest bombs I am aware of for 8th AF ops is the 4,000 pounder when attempting to penetrate U-Boat Pens, otherwise 500, 1,000 and 2,000 pound bombs HE and AP 'normal' plus the Incindiery cannisters.

There were some short range cross channel missions in which the 4,000 or 4,500 pound bombs could be carried on the inboard wing bomb rack - but I can't find a specific refeenece for those B-17 missions, nor confirm the 4,500 pound bomb usage.

I know that the 355th FG used 80/100 pound parafrags, napalm with 75 and 110 tanks/igniters, 250 and 500 pounders on fighter bomber sweeps. I am sure the Jug and Lightning outfits carried 1,000 and 500 pound bombs also.

The 2,000 pound bomb was the primary 'heavy' bomb used by USAAF (and later USAF Mk84)..