FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Yup! "Fallschirm-Ausstieg"
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All bets are off if there's any Allied fighters in the area, though!
others doused their pilot with the corrosive fuel mix, which literally dissolved the hapless fellow.
Its very hard to dissolve a human being.
It's only fair to compare contemporary aircraft within a given period. Comparing anything else than the Meteor that was operational up until april 1945 against the Me 262 is illogical. You would not compare cars or motorcylces made years apart, as it it would be an uneven playing field. And you would not compare a wartime production plane with one made in peacetime. The Me 262 was not "junk" by any means, and was the only jet fighter to achieve success against a manned opponent. The Me 262 was made from poor quality materials, assembled in forest factories, or under the worst possible conditions, and flew and fought aginst totally overwhelming odds. Reverse the roles, and the Meteor Mk1 or 3, would have hardly done anywhere near as well. Had they met in combat, in Eric Browns words, it would have been "cats meat".Where in the thread topic does it say we absolutely have to pick wartime figures and be selective as to dates. I can only repeat what i have already pointed out. its Meteor versus Me 262, not Meteor MkIII vs Me 262, (the best figures I can find). We cant even say the me 262 was not contemporary to the F8. It was being built at the same time.
Much of what is being touted around here as fact is simply the post war hype that the Germans managed to manufacture after the surrender which also suited their American captors. The Me 262 was junk in my opinion, whereas the meteor was a much more sober, measured, and ultimately successful type that deserves far more credit than it ever gets recognition for. Thems the breaks I guess.
You will have to excuse my para-phrasing from literature read. It is more acurrate to state that the the fuel mix was fatally corrosive if the pilot became doused in enough of it. There are a number of incidents where the Komet simply exploded due to fuel leakage problems, and more pilots were killed by the aircrafts inherant faults than fell to enemy action.Not true the C Stoff and T Stoff could burn, bleach, boil, blind, poison and eventually give the pilot cancer but he wouldnt dissolve. Its very hard to dissolve a human being.
You will have to excuse my para-phrasing from literature read. It is more acurrate to state that the the fuel mix was fatally corrosive if the pilot became doused in enough of it. There are a number of incidents where the Komet simply exploded due to fuel leakage problems, and more pilots were killed by the aircrafts inherant faults than fell to enemy action.
Thanks for that. Did the 262 damage the Mosquito before the Meteor downed the first V1? I recall the 262 hit the Mosquito with cannon fire, while the Meteor s guns jammed and had to flip the V1 off balance to claim it. The dates are pretty close, and it all seemed to happen about the same time. Does anyone know when the Meteor was christened the "Meatbox"? I've read it was after hundreds of pilots were killed during immediate postwar training, but this info only comes from periodicals, and not substantiated texts. I'm also unsure if it was the Mk 3 that bore the brunt of accidents as well. It does appear that far more Meteor pilots were killed in non combat situations ( ie accidents), albeit for a variety of reasons. Come to think of it, are there any figures for YP80-A pilot fatalities during and immediately after WW2?First Meteor was delivered to 616 Squadron at Culmhead on 12 July 1944 followed by a move to Manston on 21 July 1944 with a total of 7 Meteors.
On 19 April 1944, Ekdo 262 was formed as a test unit for training and testing, but flew sorties as well. On 26 July 1944, a Me262 from that unit encountered a recon Mosquito, resulting in the Mosquito being damaged.
So the timeline is very close and while some say that Ekdo 262 was a training unit, it did fly combat missions. Technically speaking, the 616 Squadron was also conducting training during this time as well.
Just found this and had to reply briefly, as it is some way back. The He 162 was a total waste of time, and amounted to nothing but a drain on resources , pilots and the final defence of the Reich. It achieved absolutely nothing operationally, killed more pilots than were lost to enemy action, and was nothing more than an act of desperation. No way would they have been able to achieve the limited success the 262 did. Galland and Messerschmitt were right.He-162
...The call for a Volksjager(people's fighter) is an astonishing late- war accomplishment that went from drawing board to flight in only three months. This very hurried project (code-named "Salamander") managed to produce the Heinkel 162, "unique in the history of aviation as the only aircraft in which development, pre-production prototypes and main production lines were started almost simultaneously and proceeded in parallel." Curious in the design is the location of the jet engine, mounted on top of the fuselage directly above and behind the cockpit; this motivated the installation of a simple ejection seat, reflecting that the pilots were more highly valued than the aircraft itself.
The aircraft itself was very effective as a fighter interceptor, equalling the Me-262. In some ways it was superior: "The BMW engine proved to be far less sensitive to throttle movments than those of the Me 262, though still prone to flameouts. This allowed the He 162 to be flown up to the limits of the pilot's confidence in the aircraft, unlike the Me 262 whose engines restricted much in the way of maneuvers." It was very fast and well armed. However, it had a problem of having a very short flight time of 30 minutes, and many operational losses were due to running out of fuel.
Despite its rapid development and excellent qualities, it was another case of too little too late for the Luftwaffe. The production program was planned to put out 4,000 aircraft per month, but only a few hundred were in fact produced because of the success of the Allied bombing campaign. Although a very few He-162s did see action over Germany in April 1944, the fighter essentially had no impact on the war.
il2guide
Galland didn't share in the above regard for the viability of the 162 as an interceptor.
Regards,
Magnon
Does anyone know when the Meteor was christened the "Meatbox"? I've read it was after hundreds of pilots were killed during immediate postwar training, but this info only comes from periodicals, and not substantiated texts.
Those figures are a bit depressing for peacetime . The 677 fatalities in 1946 are the same as quoted in the periodical that I read, and in a previous post it was remarked that this high number was due to "engine out" training that the RAF insisted on doing with the Meteor. That's a lot more planes and crew lost in "accidents" than the Me 262, but to be fair, there were a lot more Meteors flying as well, so it has to be taken subjectively.These were the days when sex was safe and flying was dangerous.
In 1953 two Meteor pilots were killed flying displays on BoB day . It didn't cause the furore it would today. In 1953 total RAF casualties world wide were 483 aircraft lost with 333 fatalities. These figures are difficult to comprehend today.
In the years leading up to this the figures for aircraft written off and fatalities look like this.
cat3 fatalities
1946 1014 677
1947 420 176
1948 424 224
1950 380 238
1951 490 280
1952 507 318
1953 483 333
'Meatbox' is just a reflection of a macabre humour in the face of figures like these.
Cheers
Steve