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i think it was at Salerno that Warspite was hit
The airbrakes were installed to keep the Meteor controllable in a dive.Quote from The Gloster Meteor :
The Meteor I was an all-metal aircraft of conventional construction, with low-mounted straight wings with two spars, turbojets mid-mounted in the wings, and a high-mounted tailplane to keep it out of the way of the jet exhaust. It had "fence"-style air brakes above and below the wings inboard of the engines to keep the aircraft controllable in a high-speed dive.
The point is that the Me 262 didn't have air brakes...
Quote from Harkins, Hugh . RAF Meteor Jet Fighters in World War II, An Operational Log; Centurion.
Although they never met in combat, it is inevitable that the Meteor III is compared to its wartime rival, the Me. 262. The Meteor III had a higher profile drag compared with that of the Me. 262. This was principally caused by the Meteors higher wing drag, in turn caused by the Meteors lower wing loading, which corresponded to lower maximum speeds compared to the Me. 262. After a series of trials with the Me. 262 at RAE Farnborough in 1945, it was determined that with engines of equal thrust the Meteor III would be 20 mph slower than the Me. 262. On the plus side for the Meteor III, the lower wing loading gave it better take off performance, including a shorter take off run, and better manoeuvrability compared with the Me. 262.
The airbrakes were installed to keep the Meteor controllable in a dive.
This has been hashed out over and over again, on a first generation jet: engine RPM and subsequent speed was slow to build...you did NOT bleed off airspeed in a first generation jet.
Repeat after me: you do NOT bleed off speed in a first generation jet.
The Luftwaffe pilots that were successful in fighting Allied piston powered fighters in the Me262 maintained thier speed, the Luftwaffe pilots who ended up in the Allied gun cameras did not.
I know it's an awesome fantasy to think about "what if", had the Meteor met the Me262 in a showdown, but the Me262 pilots had actual jet combat experience over the Meteor pilots and that would have given them the edge.
You may want to read a little about the Me262 pilots who actually fought with their jets, because in spite of a lack of airbrakes, they were able to maneuver the Me262 well enough to make it an extremely dangerous adversary.
And for the record, the closest WWII came to jet-on-jet encounter, was an attack on 616 Squadron's base at Fassberg, when it was bombed by Ar234s.
Now while your at it, find the other Me262 pilot's comments regarding airbrakes and post those, too....Johannes Steinhoff explained his learning curve on attacking fighters: "what I had to learn was that , unlike the Me 109, I could not easily reduce power or flaps to tighten a turn, getting in behind an enemy fighter. It would not work; You could flame out the engines, or go into an unrecoverable stall, usually a flat spin... Bleeding off airspeed by pulling up into the enemy was also not as effective due to the higher speeds... dogfighting against the fighters was sheer suicide..."
from The Me 262 Stormbird: From the Pilots Who Flew, Fought, and Survived It
See attachment for more detail on the above
This has been hashed out over and over again, on a first generation jet: engine RPM and subsequent speed was slow to build...you did NOT bleed off airspeed in a first generation jet.
Repeat after me: you do NOT bleed off speed in a first generation jet.
You're comparing two different aircraft: P-80 and Me262.One of the purposes of speed brakes on jets is so you can slow down without reducing engine rpm to the point where spool up time becomes a problem. F-80/T-33s land with their speed deployed so that they can make their approach with a higher power setting. Many carrier jets did the same thing. I would speculate that every jet designed after the 262 had speed brakes including transports and airliners. To say that the 262 would not have benefited if it had them is silly.
Joe, we could even take the speed issue one step further.
What was the best way for U.S. pilots to engage the A6M? It was speed not a turning fight. To get into a turning fight with the A6M meant certain trouble so the "boom and zoom" tactic was the best option.
At no time did a Hellcat pilot lament that he wished he had airbrakes so he could dogfight the Zero...
Grau, you took the words right out of my mouth;
Some comments - Zyzygie, you posted some good information here but it still seems you're trying to build justification to show that the Meteor was a better aircraft than the Me 262. It's obvious in the post war years the Meteor evolved into the superior aircraft but in mid 1944 the Meteor had a long way to go before it was a world class fighter.
First you attempted to show that the Me 262 was "difficult" to fly, there's been plenty of evidence posted to show just the opposite. There were things on the 262 that were "different" (just like other early jets) but through training, one learns these things. Like all early jets, it had its teething problems but when it functioned well there's no doubt it was deadly.
Now let's talk dog fighting - there is no doubt the Me 262 WAS NOT a dog fighter, it's obvious it couldn't rapidly slow down or accelerate and it was indicated that rapid pitch up attitude changes could induce a compressor stall. So with that said, why would one even considering dog fighting??? The use of its speed was the 262's best asset in taking on other aircraft, and that to include fighters. Why would anyone consider throwing away a major tactical asset just to get into a twisting/ turning fight that IMO would just be an extension of male testosterone!
Once again it seebomber destroyingms we are too hung up on "dog fighting" rather then hit and run tactics that are not only more effective but also provide a level of survive-ability especially when out numbered. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that most of the fighter claims by the 262 posted earlier were achieved during a "boom and zoom" attack.
Biff - any comment would be welcomed!
"Find the enemy and shoot him down. Anything else is nonsense."
Manfred Von Richthofen
I can pretty much agree with a lot of that. The Me262 was a good aircraft overall for bomber destroying.
But I think you'll agree that it wasn't fully ready for service:
...you're comparing the performance of a post-war meteor against a peer type...