Which other countries had "suicidal" aircrew in WW2?

[Dimlee]

Back to the topic and the definition suggested by GrauGeist "Determined to succeed in spite of the odds".

Eastern Front, VVS. Summer 1941: Bomber crew going to the afternoon raid after half of the squadron is shot down in the morning. Summer 1942: Fighter pilot on the Khersones airfield in Sevastopol taking off and landing under German artillery fire and with Bf 109s in the air.

Easter Front, Luftwaffe. 1945. Probably most of the pilots who continued to fly in Koenigsberg and Courland Pocket. Certainly, those who participated in the evacuation from the Courland on May 8th.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

HMS Rawalpindi is a good example.

A basic ocean liner v Scharnhorst and Gneisanau is not a fair contest.

We'll fight them both, they'll sink us, and that will be that. Good-bye

Is surrendering better than fighting a hopeless fight? Of course the Royal Navy tradition says no. But the lives of the men shouldn't be squandered on lost causes.

HMS Jervis Bay in a similarly dire situation against Scheer. Escorting a convoy, realizes that a brawl is about to kill it, opens fire and charges the Germans to allow the convoy to scatter. I don't know how many merchant sailors they saved, but I'm pretty sure they were damned grateful. 33 of the convoy's 38 ships survived the encounter.

Cunningham's bon mot about three centuries to build a tradition seems to run through more than a few RN actions in that war.

 

[Ascent]

Back to the topic and the definition suggested by GrauGeist "Determined to succeed in spite of the odds".

Eastern Front, VVS. Summer 1941: Bomber crew going to the afternoon raid after half of the squadron is shot down in the morning. Summer 1942: Fighter pilot on the Khersones airfield in Sevastopol taking off and landing under German artillery fire and with Bf 109s in the air.

Easter Front, Luftwaffe. 1945. Probably most of the pilots who continued to fly in Koenigsberg and Courland Pocket. Certainly, those who participated in the evacuation from the Courland on May 8th.

You could say something very similar about the RAF Battle pilots in France in 1940.

 

[SaparotRob]

You could say something very similar about the RAF Battle pilots in France in 1940.

I did.

 

[pbehn]

You could say something very similar about the RAF Battle pilots in France in 1940.

They were RAF bomber pilots and crews who had the misfortune to be sent to France in Fairey Battles. Others at the same time or a little later were crews in Blenheims and Hampdens which suffered similar losses. At least it could be said that the Battles were attacking something of importance (usually). Far too many were lost dropping leaflets.

 

[Reluctant Poster]

If suicidal, why did Kamikaze wore flight helmets ?

Actually they wore parachutes. The idea was to die on a USN warship. If you were shot down or had engine trouble on the way you parachuted or ditched to allow the opportunity of trying again.

 

[SaparotRob]

In Saburo Sakai's book "Samauri", he mentioned something about IJN had nothing like the USN's SAR. I did read it a long time ago and my memory is kinda' shaky. I guess the 'chutes were for a problem close to the home field. Did these pilots get any training on using the parachute?

 

[fastmongrel]

Did these pilots get any training on using the parachute?

Parachutes have an unlimited warranty. If it doesn't work take it back for a free replacement.

 

[pbehn]

In Saburo Sakai's book "Samauri", he mentioned something about IJN had nothing like the USN's SAR. I did read it a long time ago and my memory is kinda' shaky. I guess the 'chutes were for a problem close to the home field. Did these pilots get any training on using the parachute?

Did our pilots in WW2, in WW1 they were seen as being bad for morale.

 

[SaparotRob]

I'd be a lot less unhappy with a parachute.

 

[Reluctant Poster]

In Saburo Sakai's book "Samauri", he mentioned something about IJN had nothing like the USN's SAR. I did read it a long time ago and my memory is kinda' shaky. I guess the 'chutes were for a problem close to the home field. Did these pilots get any training on using the parachute?

Late war kamikaze pilots barely got enough training, period.
It is a myth that the Japanese didn't care at all about the lives of their pilots, they just weren't going to send out half the navy to look for them. By 1945 the point was moot as the navy pretty much ceased to exist.
The Zero actually had flotation gear and each aircraft carrier had a plane guard destroyer. The difference was that the US more willing to devote resources to long range search for downed airmen. The Japanese took perhaps a more pragmatic view that the resources were better spent elsewhere. The pragmatic view applies to self sealing tanks. if you hit in the fuel tanks over the enemy fleet you are likely not to make it home anyway.
The was a debate in the USN before WWII about whether survival gear such as dingies should be deleted under war conditions to improve aircraft performance. It was decided to retain the equipment.

 

[GrauGeist]

Also, later in the war, any IJN ship was taking a large risk searching for a downed aviator as it put them in danger of Allied attack.

 

[SaparotRob]

I wasn't aware that Kamikaze pilots were issued parachutes before. It seems to send a mixed message.

 

[Reluctant Poster]

I wasn't aware that Kamikaze pilots were issued parachutes before. It seems to send a mixed message.

As I said they were supposed to die on the deck of a US aircraft aircraft carrier or at least an LST. The idea wasn't just to die it was to kill as many Americans as possible. Dying at the hands of a Grumman was not the objective
This author states that most kamikaze shorties didn't end in death.

Willard Foxton

British Telly producer - covered 2 wars & got PTSD.

www.quora.com

 

[SaparotRob]

That was informative.

 

[The Basket]

If you army then you in foxhole and the bad guys are coming at you then you ain't got choices. The choices have been made for you.

But let's say you're based at an English air base and you're sleeping in a warm bed with cooked meals and all you have to do is get in that bomber and fly over Germany and get killed. How much do you really want to get in that bomber?

Kinda maybe not so much.

 

[swampyankee]

If you army then you in foxhole and the bad guys are coming at you then you ain't got choices. The choices have been made for you.

But let's say you're based at an English air base and you're sleeping in a warm bed with cooked meals and all you have to do is get in that bomber and fly over Germany and get killed. How much do you really want to get in that bomber?

Kinda maybe not so much.

Somewhere (not on the Internet), I heard that the bomber squadrons in the ETO had greater casualty rates than kamikaze squadrons.

 

[Escuadrilla Azul]

Just came across this photo in the book "Tupolev. The Man and his Aircrafts". Aparently the soviets also tried to use a flying manned bomb (torpedo in this case) as antishipping weapon:

 

[SaparotRob]

Might be better than going to a GULag. Might.

 

[33k in the air]

If you army then you in foxhole and the bad guys are coming at you then you ain't got choices. The choices have been made for you.

But let's say you're based at an English air base and you're sleeping in a warm bed with cooked meals and all you have to do is get in that bomber and fly over Germany and get killed. How much do you really want to get in that bomber?

Kinda maybe not so much.

And yet nearly all of them did climb into their aircraft and fly the mission.

Perhaps that is bigger mystery. Or, as the last line in The Bridges at Toko-Ri goes, "Where do we get such men?"