Which theater of War Would you choose for flying?

cheddar cheese · Dec 18, 2004

Nope. I havent done that in ages actually...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 18, 2004

Never have, did not know you could.

cheddar cheese · Dec 18, 2004

OH well.

Back to the topic, I would have liked to fly in the ETO, purely because if you got shot down the chances of surviving were much higher. If I had to say which plane, Probably a Fiat G.50 in 1941 over Italy.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 18, 2004

Depends on whether you were Allied or German and where you got shot down at. German POW camps were not vacation resorts. They were by far nothing like Japanese ones though. As for the Fiat G.50 I dont know about that. It was not a very good aircraft.

Freccia" stands for "Arrow", and is a typical name for wishful thinking or ignorance on behalf of the enemy's capabilities. It was the first all-metal low-set monowing fighter with retractable main gear of the Italian airforce. It was an intermediate design with a semi open cockpit, and meant to be a compromise between a short-range lightly armed defensive fighter, a medium range fighter-bomber, and a long-range fighter. Also, the fighter had to adopt a radial engine because the Italian Air Ministry had declared that all fighters be fitted with one, since there were no powerfull Vee engines built in Italy itself.
By the time the first prototype was ready, the G.50 was matched against a contemporary design: the Macchi MC.200 Seatta. The design of the Seatta had started later, and wasn't compromised to death, naturally it won the contest. Even so, the Italians by now realised that they needed fighters in numbers, and because the production lines of the G.50 were in their place and starting up, they still ordered the aircraft.

The Freccia was exported to Finland (9 G.50 Serie I, 26 G.50bis) and Croatia (5 G.50bis), and was used in the campaigns against France, Greece, during the Battle of Britain, and in the North African theatre. In France it did moderately well, because the Italians were carefull not to use it against french fighters. During the Battle of Bratain it never encountered english fighters, saving them probably from a certain doom. In Greece, at last, they saw real combat against Gloster Gladiators (bi-wing aircraft), and had more losses than victories. Only after the Fiat CR.42 was mixed with the G.50's the Italians made progress. In the North African theatre, finally, they also were outclassed considerably by the Hawker Hurricane and the Gloster Gladiator.

Strengths:

Good structural strength
Excellent handling
Excellent maneuverability

Weaknesses:

Low/Medium speed
Low/Medium climb rate
Insufficient armament

cheddar cheese · Dec 18, 2004

For what it was though I think the Regia Aeronautica managed to utilise them extremely well though. The G.50 has always been a favourite of mine.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 18, 2004

Yeah but to have more losses then victories against Gloster Gladiators. The Gladiator might have had good performance for a bi-plane but against a single engine fighter it should not have stood a chance.

cheddar cheese · Dec 18, 2004

The Gladiator was actually a superb plane. More than a match for planes such as the G.50, due to their manoeverability.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 18, 2004

Okay but the G.50 was nothing more than a second rate aircraft. In my opinion atleast.

cheddar cheese · Dec 19, 2004

First flown in 1934, and introducted into service in 1937, the Gloster Gladiator was developed from the Gauntlet biplane fighter. Even when it was introduced the design was being eclipsed by the new generation of monoplane fighters, such as the Spitfire

Supermarine Spitfire Mk. Vc
Spitfire Mk.V Trop
Description
Role Day fighter
Crew one, pilot
First Flight March 5, 1936
Entered Service August, 1938
Manufacturer Supermarine
Dimensions
Length 29 ft 11 in 9.1 m
Wingspan 36 ft 10 in 11.2 m
Height 11 ft 5 in 3.9 m
Wing area ft² m²
Weights
Empty 5,000 lb 2300 kg
Loaded lb kg

..... Click the link for more information. and Messerschmitt Bf 109

Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-6
Description
Role Fighter
Crew One
First Flight Late May, 1935
Entered Service
Manufacturer Messerschmitt A.G.
Dimensions
Length 8.94 m 29' 4"
Wingspan 9.92 m 32' 6"
Height 2.59 m 8' 0"
Wing area 16 m² ft²
Weights
Empty 2600 kg 5700 lbs
Loaded kg lbs
Maximum takeoff kg lbs
Powerplant
Engine Daimler-Benz 605 A

..... Click the link for more information. . When WW2 World War II was the most extensive and costly armed conflict in the history of the world, involving the great majority of the world's nations, being fought simultaneously in several major theatres, and costing tens of millions of lives. The war was fought between two groups of powers: the alliance of the British Commonwealth, United States, Soviet Union, China, and the governments-in-exile of France, Poland, and other occupied European countries, collectively known as the Allies (later, the United Nations); and the alliance of Germany, Italy, and Japan and their allies, collectively known as the Axis.
..... Click the link for more information. began the Gladiator was used in combat in France The French Republic or France (French: République française or France) is a country whose metropolitan territory is located in western Europe, and which is further made up of a collection of overseas islands and territories located in other continents.

République française

(In Detail) Coat of arms of the French Republic

..... Click the link for more information. and Norway

The Kingdom of Norway is a Nordic country west of Sweden on the Scandinavian Peninsula. It has a very elongated form and has an extensive coastline along the North Atlantic Ocean, where Norway's famous fjords are found. In addition to Sweden, it borders Russia and Finland. The nearby island territories of Svalbard and Jan Mayen are under Norwegian sovereignty and are considered as part of the kingdom, while Bouvet Island in the South Atlantic Ocean and Peter I Island in the South Pacific Ocean are Norwegian dependencies and not considered part of the kingdom. Additionally, Norway has a claim for Dronning Maud Land in Antarctica.
..... Click the link for more information. , but was found to be outclassed by the German fighters in most respects. Despite this, the Gladiators of the norwegian Jagevingen at Fornebu(Oslo) Airport, consisting of 7 functional Gladiators, (litt: pursuitwing) managed to shoot down an not certain amount between 10 and 20 German aircrafts before they were forced down due to mechanical errors and to refill fuel and ammunition. All but 3 of the Gladiators from Fornebu were lost as they made forced landings, most on frozen lakes in or around Oslo

Oslo
County
Administrative Centre Oslo
County Mayor Per Ditlev-Simonsen
Area 454 km²
Population
- Total (2004)
- Percent
- Density
518,929
x.x %
97.1/km²

Oslo is the capital city of Norway, and has 518,929 inhabitants, which is 11.4% of the total population in Norway. The conurbation extends into the surrounding county of Akershus and has a population of 801,028 (Jan. 2004). The urban municipality (bykommune) of Oslo and county (fylke) is the same entity, covering an area of 454.0 km², of which 115 km² is built-up and 7 km² is agricultural. The open areas within the built-up zone amounts to 22 km².
..... Click the link for more information. . The Gladiators in spite of their age, also seemed to be quite effective in the rest of the Norwegian fightings. After Britains "cooperation" with the Norwegians in the end of the Norwegian campaign, the Norwegians flew most of the remaining aircrafts to the UK where they were used in further fightings.

In the North African theatre the Gladiator achieved some success against the Italian Air Force, which was equipped with a mix of biplanes and early design monoplanes. Its most notable exploit came in the defence of Malta

This article is about the european nation. For other meanings, see this page.
The Republic of Malta is an island nation in southern Europe. It consists of an archipelago in the Mediterranean Sea directly south of Italy. These strategically located islands have been ruled and fought over by various powers over the centuries.
Repubblika ta' Malta
..... Click the link for more information. , where for a brief period three Sea Gladiator aircraft, named Faith, Hope and Charity formed the entire air defence of the island.

In the Far East the Gladiator fared little better against the modern machines of the Japanese than it had against the Germans. It played a part in the short-lived defense of Singapore.

Carrier based Gladiators were more successful, since its slower speed made it more suitable for carrier operations and it was less likely to be facing modern figher opposition.

The Gladiator was also exported for use by the air forces of 13 other countries.

QuotesAnonymous Maltese
This article is about the european nation. For other meanings, see this page.
The Republic of Malta is an island nation in southern Europe. It consists of an archipelago in the Mediterranean Sea directly south of Italy. These strategically located islands have been ruled and fought over by various powers over the centuries.
Repubblika ta' Malta
..... Click the link for more information.
"[The Gladiators] worked miracles and must have frightened the Italians." (1 - p.37)
See also:

F. H. Maynard F.H. "Sammy" Maynard, during World War II, was a New Zealander of the Royal Air Force who served as the Commanding Air Officer of Malta. Prior to the June 10, 1940, Italian declaration of war; Maynard found 4 Gloster Gladiators in crates marked "Boxed Spares - Property of the Royal Navy" (these having been left by the HMS Glorious in April). Initially the Navy had demanded the return of its aircraft; however, it eventually determined to allow their use by the Air Force.
..... Click the link for more information.
Notable Gloster Gladiator PilotsJohn H. Lapsley John Hugh Lapsley, early in World War II, was the pilot of a Royal Air Force Gloster Gladiator based on Malta. Later in the war, he would serve as the commander of the 125th Spitfire Wing and he would eventually become an Air Marshal.

QuotesDescribing the Gloster Gladiator's combat performance:
"Even when it had a height advantage and was correctly positioned it could usually achieve at best only one close pass at the SM-79."

Units Using the Gloster Gladiator
Royal Air Force
No. 1 Squadron
No. 3 Squadron
No. 6 Squadron
No. 14 Squadron
No. 25 Squadron
No. 33 Squadron
No. 54 Squadron
No. 56 Squadron
No. 65 Squadron
No. 72 Squadron
No. 73 Squadron
No. 80 Squadron
No. 85 Squadron
No. 87 Squadron
No. 94 Squadron
No. 112 Squadron
No. 117 Squadron
No. 123 Squadron
No. 127 Squadron
No. 141 Squadron
No. 152 Squadron
No. 237 Squadron
No. 247 Squadron
No. 261 Squadron
No. 263 Squadron
No. 267 Squadron
No. 274 Squadron
No. 520 Squadron
No. 521 Squadron
No. 603 Squadron
No. 604 Squadron
No. 605 Squadron
No. 607 Squadron
No. 615 Squadron

Fleet Air Arm
No. 800 Squadron
No. 801 Squadron
No. 802 Squadron
No. 804 Squadron
No. 805 Squadron
No. 806 Squadron

External link

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/gloster-gladiator-1.htm
http://www.battleofbritain.net/0008.html
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/gladiator.html
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Gladiator.htm

Gloster Gladiator

Role Fighter
Crew 1 pilot
First Flight
Entered Service
Manufacturer
Dimensions
Length 27 ft 5 in 8.4 m
Wingspan 32 ft 3 in 9.8 m
Height 11 ft 7 in 3.2 m
Wing area 323 ft² 30 m²
Weights
Empty 3,444 lb 1,560 kg
Loaded 4,864 lb 2,205 kg
Maximum takeoff lb kg
Capacity
Powerplant
Engines One Bristol Mercury VIII AS
Power 850 hp 630 kW
Performance
Maximum speed 257 mph at 14,600 ft 414 km/h at 4,500 m
Combat range miles km
Ferry range 444 miles 710 km
Service ceiling 33,500 ft 10,200 m
Rate of climb 2220 ft/min 670 m/min
Wing loading lb/ft² kg/m²
Thrust/Weight
Power/Mass hp/lb kW/kg
Avionics
Avionics
Armament
Guns Four x 0.303 (7.7 mm) Browning machine-guns |-

the lancaster kicks ass · Dec 19, 2004

CC a bi-plane will never beat a monoplane assuming both pilots know what they're doing.......

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 19, 2004

Pretty much all "modern WW2" monoplane aircraft far outclassed any bi-plane. That is why pretty much every airforce adopted the supiorior mono plane and ditched bi-planes by 1941.

the lancaster kicks ass · Dec 19, 2004

exactily..........

cheddar cheese · Dec 19, 2004

I know, but im just saying that the performance stats of the Gladiator and the G.50 were pretty similar. I realise that the G.50 was a poor plane but I am saying the Italians utilised them very effectively. The Gladiator was one of the final biplanes so the biplane concept will be reaching its pinnacle and the design will be very advanced. However with the G.50 being one of the first monoplanes it will have many teething problems.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 19, 2004

Not to put the Italians down or anything but they did not come up with very many good aircraft designs.

the lancaster kicks ass · Dec 20, 2004

and bi-plane design wasn't that advanced.............

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 20, 2004

nope, the Gloster Gladiator may have been advanced for a bi-plane but it did not stand a chance against fighters like the Me-109, Fw-190 and so forth.

cheddar cheese · Dec 20, 2004

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Not to put the Italians down or anything but they did not come up with very many good aircraft designs.

No they didnt. But they were good pilots. ALthough when they did make a good design, boy oh boy it was good. The the Reggiane Re-2005 for example. Its widely regarded as the best Italian single seat fighter, and some sources say the best fighter of the war. Going a little far there maybe, but undersatndable.

Maestro · Dec 20, 2004

cheddar cheese said:
No they didnt. But they were good pilots. ALthough when they did make a good design, boy oh boy it was good. The the Reggiane Re-2005 for example. Its widely regarded as the best Italian single seat fighter, and some sources say the best fighter of the war. Going a little far there maybe, but undersatndable.

You should tell your sources to stop smoking weed...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 21, 2004

I will have to go against those that say it was the best fighter of the war. Though it was competitive with other designs such as the Spitfire, P-51, Me-109, and Fw-190 I still dont think it was better. I will not argue that fact thought that it might have been Italy's best design. I dont know eneough about it to argue that. It certainly was not a bad aircraft. The fact that it was powed by a Daimler Benz DB-605 may have helped it out though.

Engine One 1,475 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A-1 V-12 inline liquid-cooled piston.
Dimensions: Span: 36 ft 1 in / 11 m.
Length: 28 ft 7 3/4 in / 8.73 m.
Height: 10 ft 4 in / 3.15 m.
Wing area: 219.58 sq ft / 20.4 m2.
Weights: Empty: 5,732 lb / 2,600 kg.
Maximum: 7,960 lb / 3,610 kg.
Max speed: 6,560 ft / 2,000 m: 421 mph / 678 kph
13,120 ft / 4,000 m: 351 mph / 565 kph
22,800 ft / 6,950 m: 421 mph / 678 kph
22,965 ft / 7,000 m: 421 mph / 678 kph
Cruise speed: 320 mph / 515 kph
climb rate: Time to 6,560 ft / 2,000 m: 1 min 55 sec
13,120 ft / 4,000 m: 4 min 28 sec
19,685 ft / 6,000 m: 5 min
Service ceiling: 37,730 ft / 11,500 m
Range: 609 miles / 980 km.
Crew one
Armament:
Two 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns with 350 rounds each in upper engine cowling.
One 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannon with 150 rounds firing through propellor hub.
Two 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannon with 200 rounds each in wings.
Up to 2,200 lb / 1,000 kg bomb or fuel tank under fuselage.
Two wing hardpoints for 353 lb / 160 kg of bombs or fuel tanks.

Here is a brief History of Re-2005:

it had exceptional flying charaterisics ,very powerful armament and exceptional handling.It was "the fighter" but it was limited by a slow production during the war, also due to the american bombing runs over the Reggiane factory.
However the Re 2005 could fight in the most difficult and important scenario of the Italian war ,giving evidence to its good qualities.To evaluate how the Re 2005 was considered from pilots who flew it , it can be used the sentence of General Vittorio Minguzzi :"all the series 5 fighters (Macchi 205,Fiat G55 and Re 2005) were competitive with the best aliies fighters, including Mustang and Spitfire IX,each one getting in evidence for a particular flight character.The Re 2005 in particular is the best in handling at high altitudes".
The Reggiane Re 2005 Sagittario was the ultimate refinement of a series of fighters which started with the Re 2000 Falco I and continued with the Re 2001 Ariete I and Re 2002 Ariete II.The 2005 was a turn round in the Reggiane airplanes,an occasion offered by the avaiability of the new engine Daimler-Benz DB-605 capable of producing 1475 HP.The Reggiane technical staff leaded by Ing.Alessio and Ing.Longhi devoted itself with much resolve to the realization of the new fighter and the result was of great excellence.The complete d machine had little in common with the other planes of the Reggiane fighter series.The wing structure and the empennages were retained ,while the fuselage,undercarriage,wing profiles and armament were completely new.The construction of the first prototype was started in October 1941 and completed at the end of 1942.After the first flights the prototype was sent to the Experimental Air Force Centre of Guidonia,where some modifications were requested and the Re 2005 proved to have better performance than the others series 5 fighters, with a top speed of 678 km\h at 2000 m.
The Air Force ordered 750 Reggiane, but only few were produced.A series was produced also for the Luftwaffe.
In May of 1943, the first Sagittarios entered service with the Regia Aeronautica. The first prototype and several of the zero series aircraft were used operationally by the 362a Squadriglia, 22o Gruppo at Naples-Capodichino starting in May 1943, being used to defend Rome and Naples. The squadron had developed a rather daring method of attacking Allied B-17s which involved diving head-on with all guns blazing, then flipping the aircraft over on its back and diving away at the last minute.The Reggiane had good behaviour in close dogfight and , according to General Minguzzi, who flew both Re 2005 and Spitfire, was even better than the Spit in tight turns and handling.The operative life of the Sagittario was concluded by the Armistice , that came in the September 1943.
Re 2005 was used also in R.S.I. (Italian fascist Social Republic-costituited in the north of italy after Allies invasion)with good result and by luftwaffe.About Luftwaffe's use of the Sagittario many say that it was used to defend Bucharest and Berlin; their fate thereafter being unknown.At least one Re 2005 was captured by the U.S., and the fuselage of one Re 2005 survives in the Museo Aeronautico Caproni di Taledo in Milano, been restored by GAVS.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 21, 2004

But again it was certainly not the best fighter of the war and even if they had produced more would not have made an impact for the axis. Especially not with Me-109G's and K's and Fw-190's.

Which theater of War Would you choose for flying?

Which theater of World War II Would you choose for flying?

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