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But what I always thought counter-rotating propellers, as mkloby seems to be saying too, is when you have 2 propellers on 2 separate engines rotating in opposite directions, not a single propeller rotating the opposite from normal.
That's incorrect.Did you also Know that the initial batch of P-38's Destin for the RAF Had no superchargers installed as the U.S. Deemed them to be a secret part of the aircraft.This made the P-38 a slug compared to its US counterpart.
Yep - to a maintainer we know they're different but in the end we also know the end result.You mean turbochargers.
It would be much harder (and more expensive) if the engines didn't offer this feature. (one reason for not using Merlins);
.... I wonder how a Brit version would've done adapted to merlins; though it wouldn't have been easy to set up counter-rotation, they didn't use that anyway.
The British got their castrated P-38s in 1941. At the same time they received 20 B-17Cs. Guess that was on those aircraft????On the coment on the ban on exporting turbos, I think this did occur, just not until after this trade took place. I think the ban was lifted (at least for the British) after we entered the war. Though I don't think the Russians ever got any turbocharged a/c, or did the get some P-47s.
The British got their castrated P-38s in 1941. At the same time they received 20 B-17Cs. Guess that was on those aircraft????
"Four supercharged (turbocharged) 1200 hp Wright GR-1820-65 (G-205A) Cyclones."
They ordered the aircraft in late 1940, they were delivered in the spring of 1941. here's a clip showing their use. In the middle of the clip there's a scene showing the "Supercharger" on the bottom of the engines!!!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhpJv1eTsLs
I don't know where you're getting this turbocharger ban - I did see it mentioned on a P-38 website - I think that writer was a bit delusional or had a great imagination. I worked with guys who were there - building and flying P-38s and I never once heard them talk about a "turbocharger ban."
BTW the Russians received 203 P-47s
3 P-47D-10-RE serials 42-75201 to 42-75203
100 P-47D-22-RE serials 42-2553975201 to 42-25638
50 P-47D-27-RE serials 42-27015 to 42-27064
50 P-47D-27-RE serials 42-27115 to 42-27164
What was the rationale that the propellers of P-38s rotate outwards had been a long unanswered question of my own.
If it was to make the control easier on a twin engine aircraft, the propellers should rotate inwards to bring the thrust line inwards and closer each other for the less effect of the thrust difference if one engine got troubled.
Only the reasonable explanation I got so far was that it makes the airflow over the wings stable from one of the present operator of a P-38 but was not in detail and I am not fully satisfied with that.
I am late to this thread.
Originally the plane had engines rotating the same way.
The Allison engines were changed to contra rotating props outwards to reduce the effects of torque and make the plane more stable in flight
No, I don't think so.
I am pretty sure the P-38, from the earliest concepts and before metal started being bent, was designed with counter rotating props. The original aircraft, the first flying copy,the XP-38, had counter rotating props, but they rotated inwards (the tops of the props moving towards the pilot). This was changed and all other US models rotated the other direction, outwards.
The reason often stated for the change to outward rotation was to increase stability.
The model 322's (export P-38's) built for the British and French had props that rotated in the same direction, all rotating right handed. But those were not ordered until more than 15 months after the XP-38 flew and about 6 months after the first YP-38s were delivered in the US and after the first batches of P-38D's and E's had been ordered.
Counter rotating props, be they inward or outward, reduce the effects of torque pretty much equally. The change from inward to outward was, supposedly, done to increase stability.
T!
The 1st batch of P38s were meant for the British who ordered them for some reason without superchargers and the props both rotated the same way. Lockheed called this version the castrated P38.
Lockheed had a lot of issues with the plane and the contra rotating props pointing outward as I stated helped to reduce the effects of torque and make the P38 more stable in flight. The advantage of such designs is that counter-rotating propellers balance the effects of torque and P-factor, meaning that such aircraft do not have a critical engine in the case of engine failure.
In designing the P-38, the decision was made to reverse the counter-rotation such that the tops of the propeller arcs move outwards, away from each other. Tests on the initial XP-38 prototype demonstrated greater accuracy in gunnery with the unusual configuration.
The 1st batch of P38s were meant for the British who ordered them for some reason without superchargers ...
Lockheed called this version the castrated P38.
There were several "issues" in designing the P-38, there almost always are in major new aircraft designs. But in regards to T and P factors it makes little difference if the rotation is inwards or outwards, both rotations are roughly the same with regards to P and T factors. The flow towards the outboard wing panels, vs the inboard panels, did make for greater stability at lower speeds, but no real change in P or T factors.
Maybe I have a mental blind spot, but it seems to me inward vs. outward would make a difference. As I understand P factor, it causes one half of the propeller disc to make more thrust than the other, when the propeller axis is not aligned with the relative wind. In the case where that axis is pitched up, it's the down going half of the disc that makes more thrust. That's why a conventional twin (both props clockwise as seen from behind) is harder to fly with the left engine out. Due to P factor, the center of thrust from the right engine shifts a little outboard, thereby increasing the asymmetric thrust problem. On the other hand, with the right engine out, P factor shifts the left engine center of thrust inboard, a favorable effect.
In the P-38 both props rotate outward like the right hand engine of a conventional twin, so whichever engine fails, P factor is unfavorable. But if the props both rotated inward, P factor would assist the pilot regardless of which engine fails. Is that right?
Regarding engine failure on takeoff, the Pilot's Operating Instructions for the H/J/L models says if it happens below 120 mph, close both throttles and land. If above that speed, reduce power enough to maintain control, then gradually add more power, hold rudder and aileron to maintain straight and level, jettison stores, trim rudder, feather dead engine.
Maybe I have a mental blind spot, but it seems to me inward vs. outward would make a difference. As I understand P factor, it causes one half of the propeller disc to make more thrust than the other, when the propeller axis is not aligned with the relative wind. In the case where that axis is pitched up, it's the down going half of the disc that makes more thrust. That's why a conventional twin (both props clockwise as seen from behind) is harder to fly with the left engine out. Due to P factor, the center of thrust from the right engine shifts a little outboard, thereby increasing the asymmetric thrust problem. On the other hand, with the right engine out, P factor shifts the left engine center of thrust inboard, a favorable effect.
In the P-38 both props rotate outward like the right hand engine of a conventional twin, so whichever engine fails, P factor is unfavorable. But if the props both rotated inward, P factor would assist the pilot regardless of which engine fails. Is that right?
Regarding engine failure on takeoff, the Pilot's Operating Instructions for the H/J/L models says if it happens below 120 mph, close both throttles and land. If above that speed, reduce power enough to maintain control, then gradually add more power, hold rudder and aileron to maintain straight and level, jettison stores, trim rudder, feather dead engine.