World War 2 Fighter Pilot Says P-47 Better Than P-51

[Checkertail20]

This an interview with Harrison Covington a P-47 fighter pilot and he discusses why he liked the P-47 better than the P-51.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmO_DwaIU-E

 

[DrumBob]

Good for him. In total agreement. I'd rather have flown a Jug any day.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Loves me a Jug, but a Merlin P-51 just had more range, which is why they got more escort jobs.

 

[pbehn]

It wuz the bomber maaaaafia etc etc etc......

 

[Reluctant Poster]

When I moved to New Jersey my insurance agent was a P-47 pilot in WWII. He flew P-51s after the war. He liked the P-47 more. As a P-51 fan I was shocked.

 

[Checkertail20]

The P-51 had longer range and by what many pilots have said easier to fly. The P-47 was better at strafing missions (a weakness of the P-51) and was very hard to shoot down.

 

[swampyankee]

The P-47 also had better performance at high altitudes and was better to ditch. Grabewski seemed to do pretty well with it in aerial combat, so I think the idea that it had the general performance of a brick is nonsense.

 

[pbehn]

The P-47 didnt have the range to perform the longest missions, whatever a pilot may prefer he wouldnt prefer running out of fuel and ditching in the North Sea. I blame the bomber mafia in all discussions of range.

 

[Shortround6]

I think that I will listen to pilots that had a lot time in each.

I think that my 2 1/2 years of experience in Triumph sports cars qualifies me as an expert in 1960s British sports cars and the Triumph was vastly superior to the MG.
Just ignore that I never actually drove an MG

 

[BobB]

My father used to fly with a co-pilot whose previous job had been crop dusting with B-25's in Central America. His employer was mixed up with the purchase of the local Air Force's P-47's and P-51's. While waiting to deliver them to the US, he allowed his pilots to fly them to keep them from deteriorating and of course they had to try dogfighting each other. Ben said that the P-47 was better. I wouldn't take that as gospel since if two planes are somewhat close, people are going to have their favorite and argue that it's the best while someone else argues the opposite. While delivering the planes to the US, Ben had to bail out of a burning P-47 over the Mexican coast. I like the quote from a WW2 pilot that "The P-51 was a Ferrari and the P-47 was a Buick Roadmaster. Which one would you rather drive in a demolition derby?"

 

[Steamed_Banana]

The P-47 also had better performance at high altitudes and was better to ditch. Grabewski seemed to do pretty well with it in aerial combat, so I think the idea that it had the general performance of a brick is nonsense.

I think the big difference is A) which type of P-47 you are talking about (early ones not that great) and B) where are they flying. At high altitude 25,000'+ sure give me a P-47. For low or a mix of altitudes, I'm pretty sure I'd rather a P-51.

 

[tomo pauk]

The P-47 also had better performance at high altitudes and was better to ditch. Grabewski seemed to do pretty well with it in aerial combat, so I think the idea that it had the general performance of a brick is nonsense.

I'd say what no-one serious will say that P-47 have had the 'general performance of the brick'
P-51B to K were every bit as good as the P-47D at high altitudes, if not a bit better .

I like the quote from a WW2 pilot that "The P--51 was a Ferrari and the P-47 was a Buick Roadmaster. Which one would you rather drive in a demolition derby?"

Machines will need to get to the demolition derby 1st Not arriving at the derby 500-700 miles away on it's own tank(s) of fuel is not a plus in aerial warfare - not only it will get you killed if you run out of gas, but it also allow the enemy to kill your friends.

 

[drgondog]

The P-47 also had better performance at high altitudes and was better to ditch. Grabewski seemed to do pretty well with it in aerial combat, so I think the idea that it had the general performance of a brick is nonsense.

Strictly speaking the P-47 had very slightly more speed above 33,000 feet. Zemke was a superb leader and quickly capitalized on the P-47 performance above 25,000 feet compared top FW 190 and Bf 109. So, his planned escorts were at 28,000 give or take but nominally 4-5000 feet over the bomb wing the 56th was escorting.

No other P-47 equipped fighter group in any theatre scored as high as 50% of the 56th FG.

Agreed regarding the 'brick' comment. Excess Hp to drag was king at very high altitude and the turbosuperchared, water injected R-2800 availed the P-47 better turn than everything else until Ta 152 above 31,000 feet ( the P-51B tapered off above FTH of 29,000 feet, but climb performance compared to P-51B was about the same due to cooling drag delta.

That said, veeeeery few fights above bomber altitude.

However, it was generally a moot point in the run-up to D-Day as the P47D had to turn back near middle Germany while the P-51B/D was fighting all the way to Posnan, Warsaw, Vienna, Ploesti.

At the Patuxent River Conference where all US and some RAF fighters were flown by USN,AAF, USMC, RAF and civilian pilots the P-51D was rated best under 25,000 feet (FTH of P-51D V-1650-7 was 24,000 feet) and the P-47D did beat the P-51D for Best above 25,000 feet, but only barely.

Last, but not least, Zemke is on record as stating that the P-51D was better than P47D and P-38J in combat - and he flew and scored in all three.

 

[z42]

IIRC the P-51 achieved significantly better kill/loss ratios than the P-47 for the time both were operated by the 8th AF. (Over the entire war the statistic is even more lopsided due to the LW being a spent force towards the end when the Mustang mostly replaced older fighters.)

 

[drgondog]

IIRC the P-51 achieved significantly better kill/loss ratios than the P-47 for the time both were operated by the 8th AF. (Over the entire war the statistic is even more lopsided due to the LW being a spent force towards the end when the Mustang mostly replaced older fighters.)

Yes, specifically in Q1/Q2 1944 during which the number of P-47 sorties compared to P-51B ranged from 4:1 in Q1 and ~ 1.3:1 in Q2.

The number of victory credits for P-47 in Q1 were 552 (with 4:1 sortie advantage) to 383 for P-51 in Q1. In Q2 the P-47 had 409 to P-51 total of 975.

But the P-47s coming into 8th and 9th AF in June-July were the long-range P-47D-25s. By that time the 8th was down to 4 P-47 FGs, compared to 9 at the end of March

 

[Frog]

The P-47 also had better performance at high altitudes and was better to ditch. Grabewski seemed to do pretty well with it in aerial combat, so I think the idea that it had the general performance of a brick is nonsense.

According to what caused his capture, he should have stuck to the high altitude...

 

[swampyankee]

According to what caused his capture, he should have stuck to the high altitude...

Probably. The P-47 was built around a turbocharged engine specifically for hogh altitude performance. Using for low level strafing made all that turbo hardware a waste.

Of course, they were also using Mustangs for that mission, possibly with less success.

 

[Checkertail20]

IIRC the P-51 achieved significantly better kill/loss ratios than the P-47 for the time both were operated by the 8th AF. (Over the entire war the statistic is even more lopsided due to the LW being a spent force towards the end when the Mustang mostly replaced older fighters.)

By the time the most of the fighter groups had converted to the P-51 the Luftwaffe had lost most of their best pilots and their planes were being flown by inexperienced pilots some of them just out of school. This could explain why the P-51 had a better kill/loss ratio than the P-47.

 

[NVSMITH]

All of which STILL leads me to wonder why the AF didn't use the Jug in Korea.
In the book "Goodbye, Mickey Mouse" one of Len Deighton's characters state that the AAF liked the Mustang because it was cheaper, or should I say less expensive, than the Jug.
¿Quién lo sabe con certeza?

 

[swampyankee]

All of which STILL leads me to wonder why the AF didn't use the Jug in Korea.
In the book "Goodbye, Mickey Mouse" one of Len Deighton's characters state that the AAF liked the Mustang because it was cheaper, or should I say less expensive, than the Jug.
¿Quién lo sabe con certeza?

I've read the same thing elsewhere. The Mustang was arguably prettier, which also may have been a factor.