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Maybe you can provide some comparisons, starting with June 10 1940?
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At NA was only one german JG! The JG 27 and only since September 1941 was the whole JG present (before only one group).
Also the JG 27 get the first Bf 109F-4 at September 1941, before the JG was fighting with the Bf 109 E7.
The axis fighter, JG 27 and the italian squadrons were constantly in numerical disadvantage at NA, this is proved from many books and primary sources.
That's a very sweeping statement, and I doubt you can prove it.
The Spitfire was only close to cancellation because of the time it took to put into production and the slow initial delivery.
As has been pointed out, if the Spitfire was cancelled they would not build more Hurricanes. They would look to something else - Whirlwind (also slow to get into production), Boulton Paul P.94 (IIRC - single seat Defiant). They may have looked more favourably on the Supermarine Type 324 design, and that may have won F.18/37 over the Tornado/Typhoon.
I think that once the Spitfire prototype had flown it was clear to all that the Hurricane was not going to be sufficient in the long term. That the AM would consider not ordering the Spitfire at all is the product of delusional thinking!
As you pointed out in that post, that Hurricane would have needed a new wing to out perform a similarly powered Spitfire.
Also have to bear in mind that Camm's calculations at around that time bore no resemblance to fact. The Tornado/Typhoon were estimated to have top speeds of around 460-465mph, but could do barely over 400mph (with original power levels). So take his estimates on the Hurricane with a grain of salt.
Spitfire XII was basically a Spitfire V with a Griffon II. This produced a max speed of around 400mph. If the same was done with a Hurricane, expect quite a bit less - 360-380mph, depending how optimistic you are.
The definitive Griffon Spitfire with new wing appears in 1944/45. Delays due to production considerations make it so. When would a new Hurricane wing appear?
It isn't just a matter of more aircraft. You need more pilots too.
Where was the extra several hundred pilots coming from?
I don't need to; the fact that it was canned because the Air Minsitry thought it had no future proves the whole thing irrelevant. Look, you can provide as many theoretcal figues as you like; the fact was that it wasn't going to be of any advance over what was in service or planned proves your figures useless, not to forget what ACTUALLY happened.
The Hurricane wasn't canned and continued in production until Aug 1944
Even if true, it doesn't change the fact that it came close to cancellation. However, even before the initial order there were fears that Supermarine didn't have the resources to turn a prototype into a production combat aircraft.
Sez who? That's unknowable, but what is knowable is that a fraction of the funding for Spitfire production and development would have greatly boosted Hurricane production.
Sorry but the historical record is clear that the Spit was considered for cancellation.
Possibly, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be done, but even without a new wing, a lightweight Hurricane and a Merlin 24 would be pushing 350-360 mph at 12000ft based on L1717's 12lb boost trials data, which is still pretty fast,
Again, this is not true because Camm's estimates were based on much higher engine outputs. The 10,500lb 398 mph at 23,300mph Tornado/Vulture V was still a very fast airplane even with a subpar engine. There was a speed shortfall but it was probably 20-30mph and we have to remember that the Spitfire couldn't meet it's design speeds either until it had a new wing.
Let's assume 360-380mph...it still a heckava lot better than the historical Hurricane performance, isn't it? However, why would the Hurricane be slower than the much heavier Tornado, if given similar levels of power?
Don't know, but I'm sure they had some options, and maybe Beverley Shenstone would end up suggesting something to Camm.
RAF pilot training was based upon their projected needs. If they project more aircraft, then they would have planned accordingly.
Right, and that is why they ordered the Hurricane.
Sez who?
Your claim that 3 Hurricanes could be built for 2 Spitfires is a touch more than "a fraction".
Due to production issues, only at the completion of the first order. Not at the beginning of the order, nor before production commenced.
Pretty fast for 1939/1940. Also ran in 1941/42.
Camm's estimates were based on 2000hp.
Are you claiming that both the Vulture and the Sabre gave less power in their tests? Because the Tornado and Typhoon prototypes fell just either side of 400mph. Still 60+ mph down on estimates. 100hp, or even 200hp, s not going to change that.
Because the Hurricane was draggier than the Typhoon, and the Griffon gave quite abit less power (as much as 500hp less, or around 25%).
Why would a Supermarine engineer do something for a competitor?
So were production orders.
If they project more aircraft, then they would have planned accordingly.
You forget that the Hurricane was the subject of the biggest production order for aircraft pre-war in Britain - 600 of them. There wasn't any plan to build more at that particular time; that was a huge number back then when originally placed and new facilities and contracts to other firms to enable it to happen were invested in.
And it wasn't a huge number because even then there were constant warnings that the Luftwaffe was far outpacing the RAF in size.
but efforts to produce a better aeroplane would have been investigated from the get go - as they were.
Clearly you don't know what you are talking about. 600 aircraft in the 1930s was enormous number of aeroplanes for the British aviation industry to contemplate producing. At that time the British had no idea how many aircraft the Germans had or were producing, so 600 would have seemed a considerable amount with which to meet a perceived threat.
You could argue that Hurri numbers would have been greater if there was no Sptifire, but efforts to produce a better aeroplane would have been investigated from the get go - as they were. It seems we are going round in circles and that you refuse to let this go.
Sez who? That's unknowable, but what is knowable is that a fraction of the funding for Spitfire production and development would have greatly boosted Hurricane production.
Right, so 600 HHs and 310 (910 total) Spitfires was the historical order, but an order for 1050 Hurricanes only is impossible?
...and we have to remember that the Spitfire couldn't meet it's design speeds either until it had a new wing.
also Mk IX weights are with a Rotol CS prop rather than the lighter DH CS props in the Mk V, but most HHII weights already quote for the Rotol.
However, why would the Hurricane be slower than the much heavier Tornado, if given similar levels of power?
Careful tests and analyses, based on known performances and engine powers, indicate that actually the Typhoon has less drag than the Hurricane and not much more than that of the cleanest Spitfire. This in spite of its considerably greater size.
I think we both know that the Hurricane flew first ( 6 Nov 35 / 6 March 36) and it recieved an order for 600 aircraft rather than 300 order given to Supermarine.
That is the Air Ministry figures for the cost of producing each aircraft, but it doesn't take into account the vast sums spent to get the Spitfire into volume production - 4 millions for the Bromwich factory alone.
I provided a quote by Quill where he states that "...there were plenty of people in official positions in 1936 who were saying that the Spitfire would be far to difficult to produce and maintain in service and that it's margin in performance over the Hurricane was not worth the extra effort." So there was talk of killing the project.
Really? How many spitfires were flying in 41/42 that could better these figures?
I haven't been able to find any reference to Camm predicting 466mph for the Tornado, but the Tempest I prototype did make 466mph so I have a feeling that this speed has been mistakenly given as Camm's estimate for the Tornado
Work on a thin wing Typhoon began in March 1940:
The Hawker Tempest Page
but was delayed mainly by engine problems, but a thin wing Hurricane would have lots of reliable engine choices.
Why would the Hurricane be draggier than the Typhoon? The Hurricane has a smaller frontal area and is 30% lighter.
Possibly, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be done, but even without a new wing, a lightweight Hurricane and a Merlin 24 would be pushing 350-360 mph at 12000ft based on L1717's 12lb boost trials data, which is still pretty fast,
The speed and ease which Canada set up production of the Hurricane suggests that it was easy to build, and as others have mentioned it was also license built in Belgium and Yugoslavia, suggesting that it was relatively easy to put into production.