WWII Rate of Turns (2 Viewers)

[swampyankee]

Okay, I was looking at the figures cited from America's Hundred Thousand, which I've put into an Excel sheet (then turned that into a screen-cap)

View attachment 630207

The red stuff was things I either know are wrong or strongly suspect, the gray item was something I was just unsure of: The P-61B's wing area is 662.36 square feet and, while I'm unsure the exact C/L for the P-51, I've heard some sources that listed numbers lower (1.5). I'm curious if anybody has more accurate data on the coefficient of lift figures for the aircraft in question since I have doubts as to the accuracy of the source.

The wing-area for the P-51 seems to vary a bit from 233 to 235.7 or so. I'm not sure why there are variations in this area.

Thanks

I'd be very leery of all those posted lift coefficients. It's fairly rare for airfoils to get no-flaps lift coefficients quite that high except for some fairly special cases, like the high-lift Liebeck airfoils (which generally suck otherwise). See, for example, Abbot & von Doenhoff, Summary of Airfoil Data, Summary of Airfoil Data - NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

 

[XBe02Drvr]

The wing-area for the P-51 seems to vary a bit from 233 to 235.7 or so. I'm not sure why there are variations in this area.

At some point in P51 manufacture the wing leading edges were "cranked" forward at the root, adding a few square feet. IIRC, some earlier aircraft were updated to the later standard. It's all in Drgondog's book, P51B, a very good read.

 

[Zipper730]

At some point in P51 manufacture the wing leading edges were "cranked" forward at the root, adding a few square feet. IIRC, some earlier aircraft were updated to the later standard. It's all in Drgondog's book, P51B, a very good read.

This the book?

P-51B Mustang: North American's Bastard Stepchild that Saved the Eighth Air Force

 

[XBe02Drvr]

This the book?

P-51B Mustang: North American's Bastard Stepchild that Saved the Eighth Air Force

Yup, that be the one.

 

[GregP]

I'm sure I did... my knowledge of aircraft is limited even in the post-war era: I'm fine with people adding more information.
I actually meant Ki-43, but wrote Ki-27 by accident... the other designs are all valid as long as they served in the war.
What I got so far would be the following times for a 360 degree turn...

• LaGG-3: 18-19 seconds
• Yak-1: 17-19 seconds
• Yak-7B: 18-19 seconds
• Me-109F-4: 19.6 - 20.5 seconds
• La-5: 19 seconds
• Yak-9: 17-18 seconds
• Me-109G-2: 20-21.5
• Fw-190A-4: 22-23

Average degree per second rates would come out to the following

• LaGG-3: 18.95 - 20.00
• Yak-1: 18.95 - 20.18
• Yak-7B: 18.95 - 20.00
• Me-109F-4: 17.56 - 18.37
• Yak-9: 20.00 - 21.18
• Me-109G-2: 16.74 - 18.00
• Fw-190A-4: 15.65 - 16.59

The P-51's figures varies a lot owing to a lot of things.

• Long Range Escort Mission: Involves full wing-tanks, center-tank filled, and drop-tanks; by combat the center-tank is usually empty, but the wing tanks are filled
• With Drop Tanks: Starts out with the wing & drop-tanks filled; tanks come off when exhausted, or when combat starts: This means the wing tanks are either fully loaded or fairly full.
• Internal Fuel: The fuel would be drained down by combat so it would be the lightest

That strikes me as a surprise as the P-47 didn't turn very well...

Yeah, I suppose that can be taken to the point of absurdity: I could stand still jump and do a 360 in the air... some forward velocity is needed
I figure it'd be best to start out with basic data and built up from there...

1. That's the general rule, I put degrees per second in there because it seemed to have a validity of it's own -- of course it runs into limits (a person doing a jump will spinning -- there 360 degrees a second ) without a forward speed.

Of course
I figured aspect-ratio would matter too
Would that be borne out in fact? I figure a fighter would just have to buzz the plane and knock it out of control.

I see yimes above, but no altitudes, airsp[eeds, or references.

It's like saying a football score as KC CHiefs, 21, and nothing else.

The times very considerably with altitude and airspeed.