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I have seen I said in here that there is no way the XP-39 went 390 mph, but have seen no proof of same except for some various quoting of poorly-documented wind tunnel testing done on the machine either before or after the turbocharger was deleted.
The posters don't bother to say. There is, however, some considerable second-tier sources that say otherwise.
There is a digitized NACA report (Engineer in Charge: A History of Langley Aeronautical Laboratory 1917 – 1958) which states that the XP-39 DID achieve 390 mph using 1,150 hp @ 20,000 feet. But, it did so at a gross weight of 5,550 lbs at takeoff.
URL: Engineer in charge .
Look around page 199. Langley calculated that the normal P-39 with armament would come in about a ton heavier, meaning 7,550 lbs, and the maximum speed would be expected to be around 340 mph with the same powerplant setup. They achieved a wind tunnel drag reduction in a fully-faired model of 26%. This would mean a top speed of about 429 mph at 20,000 feet with an engine of 1,350 hp. The head of the FST team said that the additional air required to cool the extra HP would likely limit the maximum speed to 410 mph. This was with a "fully-faired" model that could not be achieved in real life. The reality was bound to be something less.
If you go to WWIIaircraftperformance.org and look at the P-39 flight test data for a YP-39 (No. 40-30), the rate of climb started out at 3,600 fpm and was still 2,260 fpm at 15,000 feet. Moving to a P-39C (No. 40-2988), the maximum speed was 379 mph at 16,100 feet and the rate of climb started out at 3,720 fpm and was still 2,360 fpm at 16,750 feet. If we move yet again to a P-39N (No. 42-4400 test dated 17 Oct 1942), we see a maximum speed of 398.5 mph at 9,700 feet (critical altitude). The climb data for this airplane shows 3,320 fpm at sea level and 3,920 fpm at 11,000 feet. It was still climbing at 3,340 fpm at 15,000 feet, but tapered off to 2,630 fpm at 20,000 feet. 20,000 feet was achieved in 5.83 minutes. I believe the P-39N was at WEP power for the test.
Hi Wuzak,
Yes, I'm looking for proof, like anyone interested in what happened. You, me, or anyone else claiming something didn't happen is no proof one way or the other. If there was a test, it is likely recorded somewhere. So, I'm hoping the test document surfaces sometime. Otherwise, there is no point discussing the XP-39 peformance with just opinions. Everyone has one.
Works both ways, Wayne. There is no actual evidence that it DIDN'T go 390 mph either.
It was not a non-representative hot-rod. It was a prototype that I'm sure they flew when they thought it was airworthy. There are a great many WWII fighters that made first flights without armament. As for your question, you'd have to ask Langley. I wasn't there when the calculations were made. But a reprint of the book/paper in the link is available if you are interested.
The P-39N used a different radiator duct set-up, it used a different oil cooler, it had no intercooler and it no turbo hanging out the bottom. Plus the lower canopy and few other minor tweaks? The XP-39 had a much larger drag coefficient.The data show a P-39N that was a whisker away from 400 mph in 1942
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This chart indicates a max speed of 340mph at 20,000 with the speed dropping off towards sea level till it drops to just under 280mph.
If the XP-39 had gone anywhere near 390mph (or even 365mph) somebody could have told Langley "your wind tunnel/calculations are wrong and here is the proof".
Langley did estimate the XP-39 could have reached about 390mph at 20,000ft AFTER the modifications suggested by Langley were implemented. Modified radiator duct, modified oil cooler duct, modified intercooler, lowered Canopy, etc.
Can I ask where you found this information? I have read a story by Tex Johnson that said that Bell could not get this airplane to tumble. He said the AAF sent two of their expert test pilots to Bell and they could not get it to tumble.I will not get into the C.G. issues here. I think we all know the aircraft could be made to tumble if stalled when the ammunition was expended. That was proved post-war.
Lack of documentation is not proof it didn't happen. There are a lot of wartime documents that "disappeared" after the war somehow.
See post #2 from April 6th through the 23rd the XP-39 racked up hour and 40 minutes in the air, how much damage was involved when the nose wheel failed, I don't know. Somewhere in the first two months the engine was pulled because Allison needed the supercharger gears for a type test on another engine, this grounded the XP-39 until a replacement engine could be provided. I will try to look it up tomorrow.
The XP-39 didn't do a lot flying between first flight and being shipped to Langley. The chronic overheating certainly didn't help.
If you believe solely in theory, a bumblebee should not be able to fly, but it does somehow, and with little seeming difficulty.
Another possible reason is that the P39 was supposed to be the latest greatest wholly uncompromised land fighter and yet had barely any superiority over a warmed-up re-engined previous generation design and an almost contemporary (but older) design labouring under the necessary compromises of carrier operation.What is confusing is that they were not dogs. Comparing the performance of the P-39D with the other players in that theater, the P-40E, F4F-4, and the Zero, the P-39 was faster than all, maybe equal to the P-40 at SL, up to 25,000 ft. ( some 15 to 30 mph faster than the Zero), and it could out climb all, except the exceptional Zero, from SL to 25,000 ft. except being equal to the F4F-4 at 25k. It also would beat all except the Zero to 20k in time to climb.
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So, why did the P-39 get such a bad reputation? I can think of only one real reason.
Birch Matthews in his book "Cobra! Bell Aircraft Corp 1934-1946" states "Top speed was apparently somewhere around 375mph, perhaps a bit more, but less than the oft reported max speed of 390mph. The latter speed (390mph) appears to be strictly based on calculations. No performance results seem to have survived from this era. In fact it is doubtful that a complete development flight test program of the prototype XP-39 was ever formally completed."Hi Greg,
While documents may have existed that showed the XP-39 doing 390mph, and those documents disappeared at some point, there was never a document that says that the XP-39 didn't do 390mph.
So it is very difficult to produce evidence that it didn't do 390mph. The only thing we can go on is the lack of evidence that it did do 390mph.
P-39 Expert, or anybody else, are there any record of XP-39 test flights prior to it going to NACA?