Yellow P-51B Trainer Mustang 435th FS Wattisham UK 1944

Mustangtmg · Jun 27, 2022

Jeffrey Ethell Collection said:
Just realized there is another image of that trainer Mustang in the Collection.

View attachment 675017

Looks like an 'old hand' in the front seat and a 'new hand' behind him. Should it have been the other way around ie. trainee up front? That would be typical if it was a new pilot being checked out.

J.

I believe that this aircraft was NOT dual control - it was used to fly VIPs and parts, etc from here to there (short trips, of course, none over any combat areas (note the lack of .50 Cal BMGs in the wings) and if I've read correctly, to take groundcrewmen up on short flights as a "reward" for a "job well done" in a particular situation!

Snautzer01 said:
Eisenhower was flown around in a 2 seater on d-day. And was called the stars look down see North American P-51 Mustang

I know the great-nephew of the crew-chief who was the main "worker" on getting "The Stars Look Down" ready for General Eisenhower (a private pilot, BTW) and General Quesada (the pilot) when they flew over Saint-Lo in July, '44 to "check out the area" that the Allies would be advancing to soon. The name was, of course, fitting because of the accumulation of stars on the generals' shoulders.

buffnut453 · Jun 27, 2022

Wurger said:
The P-51 is P-51B-5-NA.

This aircraft was initially assigned to 486FS, 352FG, 8AF USAAF. Trasnferred to 496FTG, 8AF USAAF.
Transferred from the 496th Fighter Training Group sometime during the month of November 1944 when the Fighter Training Groups were disbanded and the training of new combat pilots was accomplished by the main line Fighter Groups.
The aircraft shows up on the 20th Fighter Group Monthly Inventory List on 6 December 1944 and remained with this Group until it was transferred to the 434th Fighter Squadron/479th Fighter Group on 9 April 1945. For about 2 weeks at the end of March 1945 the aircraft was on Detached Service with the 56th Fighter Group.

Coded PZ-X. Olive Drab. Invasion stripes obscured the X, repeated on starboard side of nose.
Coded PZ-M_.
Coded KI-Q. B&W striped nose. Natural metal finish. Q in Black triangle on tail. WW for war weary on tail.
Coded J2-Q_. Yellow all-over scheme with black spinner and black accents. Tail serial had '4' added to front.

View attachment 675029
the pic and info source: 43-6865 | American Air Museum in Britain

That pic appears to show yellow-ish undersides, with black stripes (see the area beneath the fuselage insignia). At least that's what it looks like to me.

Wurger · Jun 28, 2022

You are right. IMHO that's the camo remnant. The residues of the top part still can be noticed on the trailing edged of the fin and the cockpit canopy frame.

airdave · Jul 3, 2022

Werger....yes, thats one of my models.

Many modelers will create their own clear plastic canopy (vacuform or flat-cut)
but I still like to include a paper canopy in my kits.
You can use the printed paper canopy, or use the pattern to cut acetate.

A paper canopy isn't perfect, but as you see, the three panels can create a reasonable Malcom bubble as on my RAF Mustang.
The six part Halinski version might make more of a bubble, but it has more parts and more seams.
Seams are the bane of paper modelers.
And, I try to offer simpler kits for beginners...so I tend to simplify by reducing the part count.

A single bubble might work, but that double-bubble canopy will be a lot tougher (in paper).
We'll see...I'll add it to the to-do list (which is getting very long! lol).

Wurger · Jul 3, 2022

I agree. The oval meshes for paper models are always difficult to make perfectly.

My one is still waiting for finishing ....

jgreiner · Jul 4, 2022

Jeffrey Ethell Collection said:
Just realized there is another image of that trainer Mustang in the Collection.

View attachment 675017

Looks like an 'old hand' in the front seat and a 'new hand' behind him. Should it have been the other way around ie. trainee up front? That would be typical if it was a new pilot being checked out.

J.

This image is definitely flipped. I fixed it.

FLYBOYJ · Jul 4, 2022

Jeffrey Ethell Collection said:
Just realized there is another image of that trainer Mustang in the Collection.

View attachment 675017

Looks like an 'old hand' in the front seat and a 'new hand' behind him. Should it have been the other way around ie. trainee up front? That would be typical if it was a new pilot being checked out.

J.

Unless the old hand is giving the new hand an orientation ride. And why would they go off flying in dress uniforms?

SaparotRob · Jul 4, 2022

It's better to look good than to fly good.

pbehn · Jul 4, 2022

SaparotRob said:
It's better to look good than to fly good.

Did you serve on HMS Pinafore?

Gnomey · Jul 6, 2022

Nice shots!

Capt. Vick · Jul 6, 2022

Wurger said:
You are right. IMHO that's the camo remnant. The residues of the top part still can be noticed on the trailing edged of the fin and the cockpit canopy frame.

For that to be true, wouldn't it mean that it was converted BACK to a single seater AND stripped of paint?

Wurger · Jul 6, 2022

According to the history of the kite. The one coded with the KI-Q was her appearance before she got the code J2-Q_ and the second hood for the rear cockpit. So the OD/NG camouflage was removed earlier than the yellow applied. The yellowish tone of the D-Day white strips and the undersides of the rear part of the fuselage is the light trick on the dirty parts. Also it is caused by the qulity of the photographic material IMHO. Certainly if the pic is the orginal colour one but not colourized B&W image.

drgondog · Mar 7, 2023

Jeffrey Ethell Collection said:
Just realized there is another image of that trainer Mustang in the Collection.

View attachment 675017

Looks like an 'old hand' in the front seat and a 'new hand' behind him. Should it have been the other way around ie. trainee up front? That would be typical if it was a new pilot being checked out.

J.

Didn't have dual controls. Crafted from WW Mustang.

drgondog · Mar 7, 2023

jgreiner said:
Couple of interesting things about that pic (at least to me). I don't see a "WW" marking (war weary) that was put near the serial # on all other 2-seat B/C's that I've seen.
Also, this definitely wasn't the only double Malcolm hood 2 seater. The 78th FG had one as well, named "Bond Baby".

BTW, this a/c belonged to the 479th FG.

The 355th FG had the first (IIRC), two seat, two Malcolm Hood mods. Began life as WW 43-6991 YF*[U} and converted after C/L in March 1945. The 354th FG had the first two seat (birdcage - both) to ferry Eisenhower over invasion area. 43-6877 GQ*Z damaged 5-27-44 and converted to two seater.

Virtually all the VIII FC FGs had converted P-51Bs and several had converted P-51D, including 4th, 355th, 361st, 339th and 479th.

The two seater shown above as J2*Q started life as WW and converted at 479th FG at Wattisham.

I'm only aware of one P-51B-1-NA 43-12195 converted, namely WD- 2 at 4th FG.

jimh · Mar 15, 2023

When Betty Jane was taken off-line for an overhaul they decided to do Stars Look Down. I made a 2 seat conversion for the 1/48 Tamiya kit. When Ike flew in her she didn't have the noseart. Not long after his famous flight over St. Lo it was repainted, or extensively touched up. The biggest difference was the new rear canopy cover. If you watch the video of Ike being helped out of the back seat, it appears that the original cover with the "D" shaped window was Dzus'd to the fuselage, making getting out almost impossible. It was changed to a unit that looks hinged from the top. When I did the model I made both rear windows to build either version. Still haven't gotten around to building the first incarnation of "Stars".

Jim

drgondog · Mar 15, 2023

Very nicely done, Jim

Crimea_River · Mar 15, 2023

Beauty!

fubar57 · Mar 15, 2023

Beauty Jim

Airframes · Mar 15, 2023

Very nicely done Jim.

Wurger · Mar 15, 2023

Nicely done.

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