1938 Invasion of the Sudentanland

[Howard Gibson]

The Failures of Czech Democracy, 1918–1948

In the rather long article above, we are told that German generals claimed after the war, that they could not have broken through Czech fortifications. Any thoughts?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Failures of Czech Democracy, 1918–1948

In the rather long article above, we are told that German generals claimed after the war, that they could not have broken through Czech fortifications. Any thoughts?

It would have been very difficult. The German army didn't have much in the way of first-rate divisions at that point, and in the mountains aviation and armor would have been hampered in their assistance. Apparently German armor had big problems with reliability in that operation as well.

I can't remember if the Heer had its mountain divisions together by Munich.

 

[yulzari]

If the Czechs fought the German army to a standstill I would expect France to mobilise and then issue an ultimatum. There was no way the German army could deal with both at the same time. The problem the Czechs faced was being surrounded by hostile neighbours so inaccessible to French material assistance. If Hitler could stall the French long enough they might empty the Czech military stocks.

It might convince Hitler that appeasement was over and similar actions would meet with a war in the west. Especially with Britain, were to then involved, then a naval blockade would ensue.

If Hitler nevertheless rejected a French ultimatum the a German army led coup could well occur to avoid a losing war with France.

We can ignore any suggestion that noises from the USA would have an effect as it was clear that they will not do anything to stop a fascist Germany seizing any of it's neighbours but will be happy to cash in on the demand for war materials.

 

[andy1967]

It would have been very difficult. The German army didn't have much in the way of first-rate divisions at that point, and in the mountains aviation and armor would have been hampered in their assistance. Apparently German armor had big problems with reliability in that operation as well.

I can't remember if the Heer had its mountain divisions together by Munich.

According to William L Shirer by approximately 16th May 1938 ,The Germans had 12 Divisions on the border this was comprised of 10 infantry, 1 armoured and 1 Mountain Division.

 

[andy1967]

Case Green, Hitler's plan to attack Czechoslovakia was signed by the end of May 1938 with a planned date as no later than 1st October 1938.

 

[Farky]

The Failures of Czech Democracy, 1918–1948

In the rather long article above, we are told that German generals claimed after the war, that they could not have broken through Czech fortifications. Any thoughts?

A few of them said that, that's right. Well, von Manstein said that, Keitel kinda too. However, it was part of the defense at the Nuremberg trial. Their angle was as follows - we knew that the army was weak so we didn't want war, only the madman Hitler wanted it.

If we look at the documents from 1938, there is no mention of the Heer being unable to break through the Czechoslovak fortifications. For example, the report of the commander of the 2nd army (issued after the occupation of the Sudetenland) which analyzes feasibility of the offensive plans against Czechoslovakia says that all objectives would have been achieved on the first day of the attack, including a large-scale breakthrough of the fortifications.

It would have been very difficult. The German army didn't have much in the way of first-rate divisions at that point, and in the mountains aviation and armor would have been hampered in their assistance. Apparently German armor had big problems with reliability in that operation as well.

I can't remember if the Heer had its mountain divisions together by Munich.

The German plan envisaged the use of the following units to attack Czechoslovakia -
26 Infantry Divisions
4 Motorized Div.
2 Light Div.
3 Armor Div.
3 Mountain Div.
1 Landwehr Div.

That is not all of course, we need to add one Airborne division (albeit improvised), 4 armor regiments, 3 SS Standarten (Regiments) etc.

On the other hand, only a part of the units were ready to go across the border on the first day of the offensive; the HEER would be attacking at full strength within approximately a week.

Only 2 Infantry, 1 Light and 2 Mountain divisions can be really considered as second – rate units (ex - Austria army units). And Landwehr Division too of course.

The main attacks were not planned in mountainous terrain, so it wouldn't be that much of a problem.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it would have been easy for the Germans. We (Czech here) had a mobilized army and we were ready, however without help we would have lost this war, sooner or later.

If the Czechs fought the German army to a standstill I would expect France to mobilise and then issue an ultimatum. ...

This is very unlikely.
France made it clear when it signed the Munich Agreement - we will not go to war for Czechoslovakia and if you reject this agreement, you are on your own.

 

[Tiger11]

I have read that the Czechs had the strongest border fortifications in Europe. The Czech troops were extremely disheartened when the order was given to pull back without a fight. I believe that Austria, Poland, and the Sudetenland just reinforced the idea that Germany was invincible and that it was foolish to resist.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

My wife's grandparents were Sudeten German's. She used to talk about those times often. They were just children though. My wife has some photos from that time as well. At the end of the war they were forced to leave and settled in southern Germany.

Before she died a few years they took her back to the Czech Republic to see her old house and the town she grew up in one last time.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have read that the Czechs had the strongest border fortifications in Europe. The Czech troops were extremely disheartened when the order was given to pull back without a fight. I believe that Austria, Poland, and the Sudetenland just reinforced the idea that Germany was invincible and that it was foolish to resist.

I think the Munich surrender of the Sudetenland encouraged Hitler to invade Poland, It took the Molotov pact to seal the deal, but yeah, after Oct 1938, not to mention the peaceful conquest of Memeland with no repercussions, Hitler understood that the Western powers would not act.

 

[Airborne2001]

Here's a DP Casper model sheet depicting some of the aircraft that would've been involved in this early WWII:

Czechoslovakia could definitely hold off the 1938 wehrmacht around Bohemia, but they would also have to worry about Poland and Hungary. That said, Stalin wanted to militarily protect Czechoslovakia since he was close with the country in relations, but neutral Poland got in the way. Without a neutral Poland, expect Stalin to go through the country militarily.

 

[muskeg13]

We can ignore any suggestion that noises from the USA would have an effect as it was clear that they will not do anything to stop a fascist Germany seizing any of it's neighbours but will be happy to cash in on the demand for war materials.

This is a rather low blow comment presumedly coming from someone whose country stood the most to gain from a very generous Lend-Lease a just few years later. Maybe it's a thinly veiled antisemitic rant? $$$ you know. Without knowing what the future held, in 1938, why in hell would the US jump to get involved in another costly European war? Just as in 1914-17, why, when that wasn't our war either? European "powers" (small p) never seem to be able to provide the muscle or fortitude to finish fights they get themselves into. The Ukraine situation is included (but excluding Ukraine itself who was invaded and has to defend itself).