300s only

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Tom McLean was a rear gunner with 617 Sqn, he's credited with 5 confirmed kills and one propable............

 

[Brunner]

Most german aces had all of their kills on the eastern front... the russians didn't pose such a threath...

Well, their most lethal weapon was their number...
And the fact is, that when the "Experten" from the Soviet front were being transferred to the Western Europe, very many of them didn't live for long in the struggle with USAAF and RAF... (this rotation between two fronts occured to be one of the most tragic ideas of General Galland)

 

[Udet]

The most lethal weapon of the Luftwaffe fighters pilots was "their numbers"?

It appears to me you filled the blanks with the incorrect words.

Those who had numbers as their most lethal weapon happened to be the RAF and the USAAF.

So now it results the USAAF and RAF had superior fighters, superior engines, superior guns, superior cannons, superior gunsights, superior training, superior tactics, superior intelligence? Very amusing. I would like to have some pop corn here with me.

Any of the fighters of both USAAF and RAF could hardly deal with either the Bf109 or Fw190 in even numbers, or even in situations where the allies enjoyed a slight numerical superiority.

The dozens and dozens of pilots and airmen killed in action -of both USAAF and RAF- against the Luftwaffe will not let you have the whole cake.

The Supreme Eagle, which is Erich Hartmann, certainly helps on this: a pilot based exclusively in the east dealt with the dreaded Mustangs accordingly sending 7 of them down to the ground, with all 7 pilots killed.

(I recently learned some sources give Erich eight mustangs)

Excuse me, but no matter what kind of a genius Erich was, but had he been flying "a nearly obsolete plane" -like the victors address the late Bf109s- against the "marvel" they say the Mustang was, the outcome of Erich´s life could have been different don´t you think?

So what´s it going to be? It is either the Bf109 was not "obsolent" or the P-51 marvel was not that marvelous.

 

[GT]

Update.

 

[Brunner]

The most lethal weapon of the Luftwaffe fighters pilots was "their numbers"?

It appears to me you filled the blanks with the incorrect words.

Those who had numbers as their most lethal weapon happened to be the RAF and the USAAF.

So now it results the USAAF and RAF had superior fighters, superior engines, superior guns, superior cannons, superior gunsights, superior training, superior tactics, superior intelligence? Very amusing. I would like to have some pop corn here with me.

Any of the fighters of both USAAF and RAF could hardly deal with either the Bf109 or Fw190 in even numbers, or even in situations where the allies enjoyed a slight numerical superiority.

The dozens and dozens of pilots and airmen killed in action -of both USAAF and RAF- against the Luftwaffe will not let you have the whole cake.

The Supreme Eagle, which is Erich Hartmann, certainly helps on this: a pilot based exclusively in the east dealt with the dreaded Mustangs accordingly sending 7 of them down to the ground, with all 7 pilots killed.

(I recently learned some sources give Erich eight mustangs)

Excuse me, but no matter what kind of a genius Erich was, but had he been flying "a nearly obsolete plane" -like the victors address the late Bf109s- against the "marvel" they say the Mustang was, the outcome of Erich´s life could have been different don´t you think?

So what´s it going to be? It is either the Bf109 was not "obsolent" or the P-51 marvel was not that marvelous.

I didin't refer to Germans but to Russians you know. You don't need to explain it to me. I know what the German fighters were capable of and what were the results of many "meetings" the British or American boys had with Experten...

I didn't say anything about supremacy of the allied planes, tactics etc.
I never thought that way and never dared to say something like that as I know it's not true.

 

[GT]

Update.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but whilst it's true that german pilots shot down many of our fighters, we were also out there shooting them down, you seem to think they were invincible, and remember whilst the germans had many aces scoring 100+, they had even more pilots goiung down on their first mission........

 

[Brunner]

but whilst it's true that german pilots shot down many of our fighters, we were also out there shooting them down, you seem to think they were invincible, and remember whilst the germans had many aces scoring 100+, they had even more pilots goiung down on their first mission........

Of course. It is true, I'm not denying that.
I'm not saying that Jerries were invincible, but until their training system and programme worked without any disturbance, German pilots were able to fight outnumbered with our fighters. Later, when the fuel shortage and strafing Thuds and Typhoons were making the process of training the LW fighters more problematic and shorter, they occured to have difficulties even with surviving their first sortie. (however even among these young pilots trained in 43 and 44 there were some very talented and skilled airmen).