A-20s as night fighters

[Rei-Sen]

Can anybody point me to some information about the "Havoc" in its capacity as a night fighter?

 

[Greyman]

Quick n' dirty book to get you up to speed: Defiant, Blenheim and Havoc Aces

 

[larrymc]

If you mine down from LiTOT: A-20 index page you should find a few mentions.
There are a couple of books on night fighters, mostly focused on P-61, that have some discussion on P-70 activities, but I don't own any, so can't make specific recommendations.

 

[Freebird]

Can anybody point me to some information about the "Havoc" in its capacity as a night fighter?

For bringing down enemy bombers quick, hard to beat quad 20mm cannon...

 

[Night Fighter Nut]

I own a book called, "Northrop P-61 Black Widow", by Pape, Campbell and Campbell. There is a section in there that discusses the use of the Havoc called a P-70A night fighter. You might also check out, "Queen of the Midnight Skies."

 

[Ryewit]

I presume you mean the RAF night fighter, the Havoc, not the USAAF P-70.

There were various nose arrangements,

Blinded by the Light, The Turbinlite Havoc > Vintage Wings of Canada

Service of Boston/Havoc with Royal Air Force



https://no23squadron.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/havoc-i.jpg

 

[BC1]

I presume you mean the RAF night fighter, the Havoc, not the USAAF P-70.

There were various nose arrangements,

Blinded by the Light, The Turbinlite Havoc > Vintage Wings of Canada

Service of Boston/Havoc with Royal Air Force



https://no23squadron.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/havoc-i.jpg

The Havocs in the news footage are intruder-type from 23 Sqn. The only 'regular' night-fighter squadron with 'solid' nose was 85 Sqn

 

[bearoutwest]

The Havocs in the news footage are intruder-type from 23 Sqn. The only 'regular' night-fighter squadron with 'solid' nose was 85 Sqn

The Osprey Aces volume mentioned by G Greyman , above is a good quick coverage.
If you want more details, try "The Douglas A-20 Havoc - The Ultimate Look" by William Wolf (Schiffer Military History). Part 2/Chapter 2 is the DB, Havoc and Boston in British Service with details of the night intruders, night fighters, Pandora aerial minelayers and turbinelite conversions....as well as the bomber ops.

...geoff

 

[stug3]

Douglas P-70 night fighter flying with the first Northrop P-61 Black Widow night fighter, November 1943

 

[Ryewit]

Douglas P-70 night fighter flying with the first Northrop P-61 Black Widow night fighter, November 1943 View attachment 540294

Nice PR shot of a P-70 with all its teeth pulled. No guns.

 

[stug3]

Nice PR shot of a P-70 with all its teeth pulled. No guns.

Earlier variants had 4 20mm fitted under the bomb bay. Later ones had 6 .50s in the nose.

 

[Shortround6]

some had four 20mm in the nose.
One the belly packs the barrels may not have extended beyond the Pod?
There were different radars and the newer one (like used in the P-61) took up most of the room in the nose.

 

[MIflyer]

From the Profile, No.202. The best that can be said is that it was way better than the Blenheim. Note though, that it is often hard to distinguish between "Night Fighter" and "Night Intruder."

 

[stug3]

some had four 20mm in the nose.
One the belly packs the barrels may not have extended beyond the Pod?
There were different radars and the newer one (like used in the P-61) took up most of the room in the nose.

I guess they didnt judging by this Revell model. I wonder if they changed to the .50s because they were more reliable or gave more ammo capacity at about the same weight as the 4 20mm?

 

[Shortround6]

I have seen drawings that show the belly back using guns with drums (60 rounds ?) so getting longer firing times with the .50 cal wouldn't be hard.

 

[MIflyer]

Some of the early US A-20's had four 20MM in the nose but there were not many and the installation was not continued into the later models. Apparently the 20MM guns were not very reliable.at that time.

Originally there was going to be a turbosupercharged high altitude version of the A-20, but as so often occcurred in the early days of sch installations, a problem with a turbo led to a crash. So the turbo A-20's were finished with standard engines and modified into P-70 night fighters, most of which were based at Orlando and used for training. A few were sent to the Pacific, where their limited high altitude performance resulted in their being of limited effectiveness.

In the Profile sheets I posted, I was surprised to see that the initial RAF interest in the airplane was as a night fighter. At the time they were using Blenheims as night fighters and it apparently took them about one test hop to decide the Douglas Havoc was better in every way. It did not have quite the performance of the Beaufighter but I suspect it was easier to fly as well as more reliable.

I think that all of the operational A-20/Havoc night fighters were equipped with VHF radar rather than the superior S-Band and X-Band microwave radars.

.

 

[Shortround6]

It did not have quite the performance of the Beaufighter but I suspect it was easier to fly as well as more reliable.

I am not sure which versions the British were using as night fighters/intruders, all at times? They did get a number of the early DB-7s with P & W R-1830 engines, they also got a version with the Wright R-2600s fairly quickly which should have been a good match for the Beaufighter at most altitudes. But the First Boston/Havoc didn't get radar until about 2-3 weeks before the night blitz ended?

 

[Glider]

One factor that might have come into play, was that the US 20mm were very unreliable and I would prefer to have six working 0.5 that I can rely on. If I remember correctly the problem with the A20 was it lacked climb which is important if you are trying to intercept incoming bombers.

 

[Shortround6]

the problem with the A20 was it lacked climb which is important if you are trying to intercept incoming bombers.

Yes and no.
Most of these early night fighters did sort of standing patrols. At least in Europe. They were not scrambled when radar detected an incoming strike but were airborne and at cruising altitude and speed on most nights that a raid seemed likely (weather was not horrible?).
Ground radar would then vector them onto incoming targets. But height estimations were not all they could be. The Germans were trying to fly higher to avoid AA fire and the Boston/Havoc had engines with FTH of under 15,000ft. More like 12-13,000ft so trying to climb to even 18,000ft could be chore, especially if they were trying to climb while maintaining a forward speed significantly higher than best climb speed. Best climb speed was between 180-195mph true which sort of means the A-20 had a choice of not keeping up with the intruders while doing a max climb ( of 1500fpm or less when running light) or using a higher pursuit speed and a much slower climb.