Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
As noted previously, the Griffons fit into Spitfires. They probably would have fit into Mustangs if jets had not come along.
If they can install a Griffon engine in a Spitfire, they can install one in a Mustang. Installing a Vulture, Sabre, or Double Wasp for that matter, will be way more difficult.It was a point of discussion when the Merlin Mustang was in is early stages of development.
Many changes were made to the Mustang to fit the 2 stage Merlin, even more would be required to fit the Griffon.
The Vulture and Sabre were developed at the same time. They went with the Sabre.
The Merlins were doing something like 2600HP by running 150 octane fuel and water injection. All the numbers I have seen for Griffons were with 100/130 octane, and no injection. The Griffons were capable of 3000+HP.
If you can replace a Spitfire's Merlin with a Griffon, you can do it with the heavier Mustang. I think Rolls Royce investigated a Griffon Mustang. For the USA, that means setting up production of Griffons somewhere. By 1944, it was pretty obvious that the next important fighter aircraft were going to be the Gloster Meteor, the de Havilland Vampire, and the Lockheed P-80. There was no point in upgrading the Griffon. They even stopped manufacturing the now excellent Napier Sabres.
If they can install a Griffon engine in a Spitfire, they can install one in a Mustang. Installing a Vulture, Sabre, or Double Wasp for that matter, will be way more difficult.
Apparently, the two-speed Merlin XX was considered to not fit in a Spitfire.
Anything is possible with enough time and resources. Rolls Royce's job was to manufacture Merlins. The Griffon was a better use of finite resources than the Vulture. They had the Napier Sabre.The Spitfire III was to be fitted with a Merlin XX.
None of them. They did not make the effort. Without jet engines in the pipeline, further development of the Griffon would have kept Spitfires and Mustangs competitive.Which Griffon model could produce 3,000hp?
During the war, jet engines were not counted on as a reliable platform.None of them. They did not make the effort. Without jet engines in the pipeline, further development of the Griffon would have kept Spitfires and Mustangs competitive.
The Americans were working hard on the Lockheed P-80. This probably lacked the range to escort bombers over Japan. The British had the Gloster Meteor in squadron service, and they were working hard on the de Havilland Vampire. They were also working on the de Havilland Hornet, which again was expected to have sufficient range to escort bombers to Japan. The Hawker Fury with the Sabre_VII was an amazing aircraft, but clearly, the future was jets.During the war, jet engines were not counted on as a reliable platform.
They were quirky, fuel hungry and literally viewed as a novelty.
The development of piston powered fighters was still a priority right up to the day that Japan surrendered.
I would tend to agree and using articulating rods minimises the bearing issues but would increase weight.My first thought would be that one would want to limit the engine to banks of six cylinders, so this means only the X (and and possibly hex), double-V (like the Allison V-3420), and H layouts are likely (the W layout would have 3 banks of 8). Of the three, my preference would be an X-configuration, as it would have only one crankshaft, which eliminates all the issues with phasing plus, since the crankshaft is the heaviest moving component in any engine, probably saves some weight.
My tendency, if I wanted to get an engine into production soonest, would also be to eschew sleeve valves, especially for a company that's not done it before.
That pretty much follows the same concepts as the Napier Nomad engine and both were post war not pre warOne way that worked if you had time and materials was Dobrynin VD-4K - Wikipedia
I'm not aware of any "flat H" engines with poppet valves in the power range we are talking. I suspect that having poppet valves with their associated springs and cams made the engine too wide for the air frame guys. I've seen the drawings for the Merlin "vertical H" engine, and it is seriously tall.
I still think a double Peregrine has merit as you could start double Kestrel in '35 and get 5 years experience in before you are at war with your 1,750hp double Peregrine. Makes for a very different looking Typhoon...
as do the camshaftsToo long, as I understand it the crankshaft twists.
and LincolnsAnd the Firefly.
Yes, it caught fire, possibly because the engines were inverted and the inner exhausts went straight down. Oil leaks would then get on the hot exhausts and ignite. The fault is not completely with the engine, though, as the installation seemed to be poor. For instance, the He 177 did not have a firewall behind the engine.
Essentially the He 177 was a 4 engine aircraft. But with only two propellers.
Other aircraft fitted with the DB 606/610 didn't seem to have as many issues, though they weren't built in large numbers.
The following 24 cylinder engines actually flew: the Napier Dagger, Napier Sabre, Fairey Monarch, Lycoming XH-2470, Rolls-Royce Eagle and Arsenal 24H (all H arrangements), the Rolls-Royce Vulture and Rolls-Royce Exe (X engines like the unflown DB-604), the Junkers Jumo 222, Dobrynin VD-3TK and Dobrynin VD-4K (all hexagonal), and the Daimler-Benz DB 606, Daimler-Benz DB 610, Allison V-3420 and Aichi Ha-70 (all built by coupling two V12 engines together).
Of those, the Napier Sabre, Rolls-Royce Vulture, Daimler-Benz DB 606 and Daimler-Benz DB 610 actually made it into combat. The Sabre was far the most successful and powered one of the best fighters of WW2, the Tempest, and one of the fastest prototypes, the Sabre Fury.
The Fairey Monarch is interesting because it was designed to be safe rather than to give the maximum power to weight and power to frontal area. It was basically two independent engines, either of which could function if the other was damaged, powering contra-rotating airscrews. The idea was to give twin engined safety to an aircraft that could land on a carrier without asymmetric thrust and whose wings could be easily folded.
My take is that each arrangement, H, X or hexagonal could work if enough resources were thrown at the problem. Certainly the late war Sabres and the 1951 VD-4K were excellent engines. However, because the need for engines giving 2,500 hp was only perceived rather late, only the Sabre made a significant positive contribution to its nations effort.
Edit: Should add the Packard mentioned above.
At least one Reno racer was a Mustang with a Griffon.Griffon powered Mustang. Cool.
It's a wonder that the greatest 24 cylinder engine of them all hasn't been mentioned - the Fairey P.24 with 4 speed, 2 stage supercharging!
The OP's requirement was for a 24 cylinder engine of 1,500+ hp in '39 (which just about guarantees 87 octane fuel), that will be up-gradable to remain relevant until VJ-Day. The only engine that historically meets the '39 date in the Vulture.