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Wild_Bill_Kelso
Senior Master Sergeant
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- Mar 18, 2022
So in the Pacific, in mid 1943, there was a several month gap in activity by fleet CVs?
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In mid 43 Saratoga was the only fully operational CV in the USN. She traded her air group containing Wildcats for one with Hellcats while in the South Pacific after the New Georgia operation. That squadron had started life with Corsairs but gave them up to the USMC and got Hellcats before joining the ship.Also, I guess the US fleet carriers went back to Hawaii or California to get their Hellcats and do a period of training and familiarization with them during summer 1943?
Not really. Sara and Vic were in the South Pacific through July.So in the Pacific, in mid 1943, there was a several month gap in activity by fleet CVs?
Not really. Sara and Vic were in the South Pacific through July.
So Wasp was sunk by a submarine (scuttled after mortal wounding) Sept 1942, Hornet was destroyed during the Battle of Santa Cruz islands in Oct 42. Were they flying F4 or F6 by then? My understanding was F4F but maybe I missed something?The new carriers gathered at PH as they finished working up in the first half of the year. Starting in Aug they carried out various raids on Japanese bases on the likes of Wake and Marcus Islands. These continued to Oct. But they were hit and run operations about which little is heard. They represented a useful final work up for the carriers and their aircraft.
The next moves were
1. in the Solomons with landing operations at Bougainville on 1 Nov covered by Saratoga and the CVL Princeton
2. in the Central Pacific in the Gilbert and Marshall Islands starting at Makin and Tarawa on 20 Nov. That involved the Essex class Essex, Yorktown, Lexington, Bunker Hill plus Saratoga, a rejuvenated Enterprise and the CVL Cowpens, Belleau Wood, Monterey, Independence and Princeton plus 8 CVE.
Given that in Oct 1942 after the loss of Wasp and Hornet, the Pacific fleet only had Saratoga and a damaged Enterprise it represents a major turnaround.
Then operations moved on to raids on Rabaul and Truk, the Marianas, Palau, Leyte, Luzon, Indochina, IwoJima, Okinawa and finally Japan itself. (I've probably miss a few)
Right through to the end of the war carriers on their way from PH to join the fleet would hit places like Wake as a final work up. In the BPF the carrier Implacable newly arrived in the Pacific took a swipe at Truk in June 1945
Edit Remember these new ships didn't begin arriving in the Pacific until late May 1943. It took several months to amass the whole group.
I was merely pointing out that this same glossing over can be found almost verbatim in the F6F Wikipedia article. Due to the target audience this is completely understandable. However members here expect much more and rightfully so.I am disappointed to learn that I apparently give the impression that I rely on Wikipedia as a 'primary source' for anything.
There were four US Navy squadrons which operated for a time on land, VF-1, 33, 38, and 40. VF-1 was stationed in Tawara, while the other three were in the Solomons. All of these units were rotated out by early 1944. There were also five US Marine night fighter units which were land based. VMF(N)-541 was stationed in the Philippines and VMF(N)-534 in Guam, while VMF(N)-533, 542, and 543 served in Okinawa. There's also VMD-354 which flew recce Hellcats out of Falalop in the later stages of the war.Do you know much about activity by land based F6F in the Solomons or elsewhere?
VF-33 was stationed for a time at Munda in the Solomons and were responsible for the first A6M victory by an F6F pilot (Ens J A Warren). This occurred on September 6, 1943. By the end of the month Solomon-based units VF-33, 38, and 40 brought down 29 of a total 35 shoot-downs credited to Hellcat pilots. From early 1944 onwards only Marine F6F units were land-based in the SWP.How many of those land based units active with F6F in 1943, and when in 1943
Is there any info on what kind of aircraft they were encountering over Wake, Tarawa etc.?
Yes. Sara switched to Hellcats about Aug / Sept 1943 while in South Pacific after Vic headed back to UK via PH.Ok thanks so bear with me, so Saratoga and .... HMS Victorious? were active in the South Pacific through July, with Wildcats...?
Yes. If you start with the Wiki pages (yes I know but it is a start!) on the Essex and Independence classes you will get completion dates and links to histories. Also DANFS for ship histories.The rest of the carrier fleet was back in California or Hawaii getting the big refit / new launch with the new fighters. Or coming out of the shipyards.
I'm away from my library until the weekend and only have my not so smart phone so working largely from memory.Do you know much about activity by land based F6F in the Solomons or elsewhere? Or F4U? I think there were one or two squadrons of F4U active in 1943 right?
Both were flying F4F when lost.So Wasp was sunk by a submarine (scuttled after mortal wounding) Sept 1942, Hornet was destroyed during the Battle of Santa Cruz islands in Oct 42. Were they flying F4 or F6 by then? My understanding was F4F but maybe I missed something?
The first aerial victories credited to Hellcat pilots were by VF-6 pilots over Howland and Baker Islands. These were a pair of H8K four-engine float planes brought down during the first few days of September 1943. First major battles with A6M occurred over Wake Island on October 5/6 1943. Rabaul was also a great place to encounter Zeros during the attacks on this Japanese stronghold in early-mid November of the year.Is there any info on what kind of aircraft they were encountering over Wake, Tarawa etc.?
Which is pretty much what I thought... and it took a couple of months to get the Hellcat squadrons readyYes. Sara switched to Hellcats about Aug / Sept 1943 while in South Pacific after Vic headed back to UK via PH.
So it sounds like F4Fs were in action off of fleet carriers through Oct of 1943Both were flying F4F when lost.
So no fleet carrier action from F6Fs until Oct 43. The fighter activity with F6Fs prior to that was with land based units, in the Solomons?The first aerial victories credited to Hellcat pilots were by VF-6 pilots over Howland and Baker Islands. These were a pair of H8K four-engine float planes brought down during the first few days of September 1943. First major battles with A6M occurred over Wake Island on October 5/6 1943. Rabaul was also a great place to encounter Zeros during the attacks on this Japanese stronghold in early-mid November of the year.
Because the US was primarily on the offensive during this time Japanese bombers were only occasionally encountered with the bulk of the aerial opposition being A6Ms.
The Essex air group with its Hellcats struck Marcus Island on 31 August 1943. See DANFS ship history for Essex.So no fleet carrier action from F6Fs until Oct 43. The fighter activity with F6Fs prior to that was with land based units, in the Solomons?
The Essex air group with its Hellcats struck Marcus Island on 31 August 1943. See DANFS ship history for Essex.
What do you mean?
The last time Sara was recorded with F4F was in the Official USN report on aircraft locations for 17 Aug 1943.So it sounds like F4Fs were in action off of fleet carriers through Oct of 1943
This is a great resource for the day-by-day air actions in the PTO (USAAF, USN, British, Australian, Japanese, ect.). Just select a month and there will be information about the missions, victories, and losses:
Pacific Wrecks - Chronology Day By Day World War II Pacific and Korean War
Chronology covers WWII Pacific and Korean War activities of the U.S. Army Air Force, U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, Australian, New Zealand and Japanese with links to locations, aircraft and ships.pacificwrecks.com