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So the stations are attached to the racks, and a shackle is where bomb meets station?
They also redesigned the bomb-bay correct?
There was no clear and obvious alternative, as is often argued. Various plans were developed, some times concurrently, and in the end Harris did attack oil targets (beloved of the Americans) and more heavily that the 8th Air Force itself.
So the rack has stations on it; the stations on it can be fitted with shackles to carry bombs... did I get it right?The shackle is the part that supports the load of the bomb and connects it to the rack. . . A station is a point on the rack where the shackle can be attached.
I still think the RAF made a good point about bomb-bays: Sometimes you are better off with one huge bay than two smaller onesThey had to for Thin Man (long and skinny, some consideration was given to using the Lancaster to carry this bomb, because of its size and shape), but I believe the Fat Man and Little Boy could fit in the B-29's forward bomb bay once the rack had been changed.
And payload capacity to distanceAnd more effectively, owing to the larger bomb sizes used by the RAF?
Didn't the USAAF partially operate under Portal's control? If I recall correctly the bombing of Sofia was the RAF's idea but our planes were under their charge...In August/September 1944 the Air Staff (and Portal) seem to have had a St Paul on the road to Damascus moment and suddenly seized on the Oil Plan with the fanaticism only recent converts can show. Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea
Portal would regain control of Harris' force from Eisenhower in mid September.
CorrectIn October Harris despatched just 817 sorties (just over 4,000 tons of bombs) against the Allies supposed number one priority target, synthetic oil plants. This seems a poor effort until we look at the tonnage dropped by the 8th Air Force in the same period on such targets, just 3,256 tons. A double standard often operates against Harris.
Where did the rest of the 8th AF's go?From 1st June 1944 to 8th May 1945 Bomber Command despatched 15% of total sorties (22,000 of 155,000) in raids against oil targets, dropping 99,500 tons of bombs on them. The 8th Air Force sent 13% of its sorties (28,000 of 220,000) against similar targets, dropping 73,000 tons of bombs on them.
We had better PR...It is Harris who faces the charge that he could and should have done more, but I have never seen or heard such a charge levelled at the 8th Air Force. One has to ask why?
No, he was operating under directive from Churchill...The usual response is that Harris carried on his area offensive during this period too, and that that effort could have been devoted against the oil system, but this is to have a far to simplistic view of the criteria governing Bomber Command's targeting methods.
Which was of course trueA final thought on this too. When Churchill wrote his infamous note to Portal on March 28th 1945, following the Dresden raid, which started
"the moment has come when the question of bombing German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed..."
Portal thought the note was an attempt to divert responsibility for the bombing campaign away from Britain's political leadership and onto the military leadership.
Yeah, he generally was the most direct and made the best effort to tell the truth.Harris' reaction was understandably incandescent. He wrote that it was "abusive" and "an insult both to the bombing policy of the Air Ministry and to the manner in which that policy has been executed by Bomber Command." He never was much of a diplomat, and had anyway been arguing for years for more honesty in the portrayal of what his command was doing.
Of courseFor as long as the Military has been subject to civilian i.e. political control, there have been efforts to shift responsibility and blame for actions undertaken by the military at the direction of the politicians, to the military when those actions may not be easily understood by the voting public, or worse when those actions might be viewed as "wrong".
Johnson was an idiot. I'm wondering why he did this, was he afraid of the military?Perhaps the best example I can give is the Vietnam war, where Johnson would personally select targets often with a huge time delay from receiving intelligence and then ordering the strike.
AgreedI do believe in civilian control, the alternative is scary
So the rack has stations on it; the stations on it can be fitted with shackles to carry bombs... did I get it right?
Did you not watch the video from before?
Oh, no, you did not... oh yes you did!Probably trying to figure out how the quote the video
A final thought on this too. When Churchill wrote his infamous note to Portal on March 28th 1945, following the Dresden raid, which started
"the moment has come when the question of bombing German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed..."
Portal thought the note was an attempt to divert responsibility for the bombing campaign away from Britain's political leadership and onto the military leadership. Given Churchill's support for Harris throughout the war and his bullying of the Air Staff into the bombing of East German cities in support of the Russians, one of which he was told would be Dresden, it must have seemed churlish at least.
Yes I did, as I understand itDid you not watch the video from before?
That makes enough sense: The politicians give the orders; then toss those who carried them out under the bus when they look sufficiently unpleasant. Not that Harris was very willing to carry them out, but he did what Churchill told him to do.Sorry to quote myself, but I found this written about the bombing campaign to come, whilst looking at an entirely different subject (Sealion). It was written on 8th July 1940.
"When I look around to see how we can win the war I see that there is only one sure path. We have no continental army which can defeat the German military power. The blockade is broken and Hitler has Asia and probably Africa to draw from. Should he be repulsed here or not try invasion, he will recoil eastward, and we have nothing to stop him. But there is one thing that will bring him back and bring him down, and that is an absolutely devastating, exterminating attack by very heavy bombers upon the Nazi homeland."
This was not written by Harris of course, but by Churchill. Fortunately the historian responsible for some of the best work on Churchill, Martin Gilbert, asked Harris to comment on this minute, which he did in 1982. Harris, as you would expect, did not disavow the principles behind Churchill's writing.
"It was the origin of the idea of bombing the enemy out of the war, I should have been proud of it. But it originated with Winston."
No, that originated a long time earlier. I'm not sure when the idea of bombarding population centers came into being, and by bombardment, I mean by bow & arrow, catapult, artillery shell, or by bomb carried aboard an airplane.It is not quite true that the idea of a general bombing offensive originated with Churchill
Though there were many things about Bomber Harris not to like, I'd have to say that I liked the fact that he was generally the most honest.In an interview with AVM Tony Mason in 1977 Harris once again did not shrink from admitting the campaign from 1942, when he took over at Bomber Command, for what it was. But neither was he prepared to carry the can for others.
'I lived in a shower of directives from the day I took over to the last day of war. The directive when I took over was that I wasn't to specifically aim at anything unless ordered to do so and to blast the German cities as a whole.'
Technically even if nobody was killed (outside the air-bases, factories, etc) it would be foolish to admit that it would have no affect on morale.Steel did not think so. His response.
"I cannot possibly agree [to Higgins' version]. In fact there is little difference between Higgins and myself as to the value of moral effect, but he wants to lay it down that we are to attack the civil population to produce the moral effect; I insist on laying it down that we adhere to the rules, and attack military objectives in the vicinity of populated areas, which would produce the moral effect we require...Higgins' version is almost diametrically opposed [to mine] from every point of view."
Some did by itself, others felt that interdiction and even a little bit of CAS would be useful.There were a lot of military officers who were completely sold on strategic bombing as the war winner, all by itself
It was a plague...He was looking for some way to strike at an enemy which was the most dangerous threat to the existence of British people -- not just Britain -- since the Plague.
Unless I misunderstood, or missed a detail: Is this the mean point of impact or is this something else? I'm just curious why they US didn't compute the bomb-accuracy for every plane as the RAF did? We could often see better than they did...The British relied largely on individual bombing photographs, and anyway every aircraft carried a bomb aimer (bombardier) who used a bomb sight (no toggling on the leader at night) and every aircraft bombed individually.
Why the hell did we use formations this wide in 1944? Previously we were using 12 ship combat boxes one behind the other? At least that's a more narrow series of bomb-trains...With bomber formations 500yd across and even wider, a lot of bombs are going to be spread out.
Thanks man, this rocksTwo documents that should answer a lot of the questions regarding bombing:
Bombardiers Information File
Bombardiers' Information File : United States. Army Air Forces. Office of Flying Safety : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
Terminal Ballistics Data, Vol I
Terminal ballistic data, volume I, bombing. :: World War II Operational Documents