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I agree completely however I was discussing the disposition of resources on both sides. If the RAF had just a single raid with one stream of 1000 bombers then the LW only have to find that stream and put all resources against it. That is three times as many targets in one area with up to three times more defending fighters.I have read several accounts by night fighter pilots who knew they were in the stream, as evidenced by experiencing turbulence/prop wash, they may even have glimpsed a potential target, yet they failed to make an interception. It really was not as simple as it might seem to us. One can only admire the skill and tenacity of the relatively few night fighter crews who did achieve some considerable success.
Cheers
Steve
I agree completely however I was discussing the disposition of resources on both sides. If the RAF had just a single raid with one stream of 1000 bombers then the LW only have to find that stream and put all resources against it. That is three times as many targets in one area with up to three times more defending fighters.
I'd almost swear I saw in a documentary on the Schweinfurt raid that the bombers kind of went out of their combat box right over the target area; and into some kind of amorphous "formation" as they proceeded to bomb; then went back into their combat-box on their way out.
Great shot, showing also how difficult seeing the ground is even on a fairly clear day.
I'd almost swear I saw in a documentary on the Schweinfurt raid that the bombers kind of went out of their combat box right over the target area; and into some kind of amorphous "formation" as they proceeded to bomb; then went back into their combat-box on their way out.
At that point it would appear each bombardier was aiming on his own
No, I get that... but over the target area, the threat stopped being the fighters and instead became the flak. The fighters usually didn't seem to attack over the target area except in specific circumstances it would appear to avoid getting blown up by flak as well, in such cases it would appear the fighters operated above a certain set altitude, and the flak below...
That I know, it has to do with the reflex time of the brain. If my reflex time is a half a second off, it doesn't matter if I'm a half a second behind you anyway.
No history of the Battle of Britain is complete without a shot of a Fw190 being hit and a squadron of Spitfire Mk Vs flying past. Germany's success in Barbarossa can easily be understood when you see all the Tiger and Panther tanks they had to send to Russia.The problem with getting your history from a TV documentary, is your assumption that all the film clips are from the subject being depicted.
i've seen Fw190's shot down in the Pacific, on TV.
Don't get your history from TV.
The problem with getting your history from a TV documentary, is your assumption that all the film clips are from the subject being depicted.
They frequently refer to "industrial haze" as if the smoke comes from the industry itself, even non industrial areas had this "haze" due to most people using black or brown coal and wood for heating.Yes, even on a cloudless day there were problems with haze, and then of course the Germans operated very effective smoke screens over sensitive targets, though I don't know if any or how many generators were available at Schweinfurt.
I live in Stockton which is next to Middlesbrough and under the flight path to/from what was Middleton St George bomber airfield. In the 1960s before the clean air act I remember every house throwing up plumes of smoke which hung above the region, from the Eston Hills nearby all you saw was a bank of grey.Think of all those cities in the southern half of the West Riding from Sheffield up through Leeds, then further north you have Middlesborough and the industrial centres of the North East.
Bomber Groups based further south in East Anglia enjoyed better conditions in their rural surroundings, further from industrial areas.
A bit of a cheek when Widnes had smoke generators in peacetime, easy to forget how chronic pollution used to be. When I started work Middlesbrough had 8 blast furnaces operating but the steelworks in nearby Stockton and Hartlepool had already closed.They don't call Middlesborough fans 'Smoggies' for nothing
Cheers
Steve
I waded through a completely idiotic documentary showing "dramatic new evidence" of how "the Germans missed the chance to beat the British" by not understanding their recon photos of Chain Home stations. They were clearly visible on German recon photos but the dull Germans were just too plain dumb to understand what they were. This completely ignores what I knew in the 1960s, that the Germans knew all (or most) about the Chain Home system and did try to attack it but were not successful in most cases and even when they were successful they didnt know it or take advantage.With regards to 'TV History', I was recently given a boxed set of a DVD and book on the Battle of Britain, produced, or at least released, by the History Channel.
The DVD is almost reasonable, but with the usual stock footage, but the book isn't worth the paper it's printed on - not one of the illustrations in the book is from the BoB period, let alone the Battle itself !
Wait, I was talking about 8/17/43 not 10/14No, the Schweinfurt raid followed the normal tactics. Here's a photograph of some aircraft of the 306th BG over Schweinfurt on 14th October 1943, maintaining their formation in very heavy flak. This Group lost 10 aircraft on the raid.
View attachment 368796
Wait, I was talking about 8/17/43 not 10/14
I'd almost swear I saw in a documentary on the Schweinfurt raid