Air Force Says It Will Not Use the KC-46 Unless it Is Forced To

[nuuumannn]

Hm, does anyone know if the KC-767 has the same issue? Its refueller's station is right behind the flight deck.

JASDF KC-767 i

KC-46 flying the flag for a beleagured Boeing at Paris last year.

KC-46

 

[fannum]

In '62, had better part of a year on the Bennington in SoPac out of boot, flying with VS-33 & 38 in AD-5S and Stoof as ASW tech. Suddenly got urgent transfer to Caribbean aboard Wasp for what has become Cuban Missile fracas. Had over complement of ADs, and we sat on all subs and transports, two 6-7 hour hops per day, with half of air wing in air at all times.

Then to Millington for "A" then "B" school in one shot, and as Reserve P2V-7 bunch had few trained operators, flew with them nights and weekends ... but somehow never drew flight skins. Typical five hour mission was burning holes in the air on way to Gulf for 1.5 hr, 2 hr. on station, and back home. Coming and going, I'd ride in nose as could kind of recline and snooze. No one said anything about NATOPs, and nifty view, especially t/o and approach, but mostly at night.

However, I was an AF brat and Dad went to Maxwell for Command and Staff school in '57, where I was in CAP. Their base hacks were TB-25Js which all the students used to get their flight time each month. We'd hang around base ops on weekends, and cadge rides ... and that was the most panoramic view w/o Norden or gun.

They'd been moded to remove most of framing, and most students were end of WWII officers who took advantage of the freedom these unstructured qual flights offered. It was big fun to run below hilltop level through the Tennessee valleys, hoping they kept track of when one of the TVA dams was coming up around the next bend.

Dad had done a Barksdale SAC tour just before then, and they'd take CAP cadets along on KC-97L refueling missions. There's an instructor's pad alongside the boom operator, both lying on stomach, the ideal place to look at B-47s hooking up and wave at the pilots.

Since there were dual controls, one time they put a killer cute girl cadet in the primary position, all dolled up with mascara and lipstick, and when the bomber swung into position, he found himself looking into the face of a redheaded Shirley Temple look-a-like!

A far cry from today when budget restrictions and anal regulations are shutting down Armed Forces Days, TV event flyovers, and fuel restrictions have pilots retiring after 20 years with less than 3000 hours. I had logged that much civilian time when I joined the Navy at 18!

Sorry if this seems like bragging ... was not exceptional back then.

 

[SaparotRob]

In '62, had better part of a year on the Bennington in SoPac out of boot, flying with VS-33 & 38 in AD-5S and Stoof as ASW tech. Suddenly got urgent transfer to Caribbean aboard Wasp for what has become Cuban Missile fracas. Had over complement of ADs, and we sat on all subs and transports, two 6-7 hour hops per day, with half of air wing in air at all times.

Then to Millington for "A" then "B" school in one shot, and as Reserve P2V-7 bunch had few trained operators, flew with them nights and weekends ... but somehow never drew flight skins. Typical five hour mission was burning holes in the air on way to Gulf for 1.5 hr, 2 hr. on station, and back home. Coming and going, I'd ride in nose as could kind of recline and snooze. No one said anything about NATOPs, and nifty view, especially t/o and approach, but mostly at night.

However, I was an AF brat and Dad went to Maxwell for Command and Staff school in '57, where I was in CAP. Their base hacks were TB-25Js which all the students used to get their flight time each month. We'd hang around base ops on weekends, and cadge rides ... and that was the most panoramic view w/o Norden or gun.

They'd been moded to remove most of framing, and most students were end of WWII officers who took advantage of the freedom these unstructured qual flights offered. It was big fun to run below hilltop level through the Tennessee valleys, hoping they kept track of when one of the TVA dams was coming up around the next bend.

Dad had done a Barksdale SAC tour just before then, and they'd take CAP cadets along on KC-97L refueling missions. There's an instructor's pad alongside the boom operator, both lying on stomach, the ideal place to look at B-47s hooking up and wave at the pilots.

Since there were dual controls, one time they put a killer cute girl cadet in the primary position, all dolled up with mascara and lipstick, and when the bomber swung into position, he found himself looking into the face of a redheaded Shirley Temple look-a-like!

A far cry from today when budget restrictions and anal regulations are shutting down Armed Forces Days, TV event flyovers, and fuel restrictions have pilots retiring after 20 years with less than 3000 hours. I had logged that much civilian time when I joined the Navy at 18!

Sorry if this seems like bragging ... was not exceptional back then.

Quest que c'est "Stoof"?

 

[ThomasP]

S2F (S·too·f) Tracker, later redesignated S-2. IMO, another Grumman unsung workhorse of the 1960's USN, and deserving of more attention.

"Grumman S-2 Tracker - Wikipedia"

 

[SaparotRob]

Go Grumman!

 

[special ed]

In '62, had better part of a year on the Bennington in SoPac out of boot, flying with VS-33 & 38 in AD-5S and Stoof as ASW tech. Suddenly got urgent transfer to Caribbean aboard Wasp for what has become Cuban Missile fracas. Had over complement of ADs, and we sat on all subs and transports, two 6-7 hour hops per day, with half of air wing in air at all times.

Then to Millington for "A" then "B" school in one shot, and as Reserve P2V-7 bunch had few trained operators, flew with them nights and weekends ... but somehow never drew flight skins. Typical five hour mission was burning holes in the air on way to Gulf for 1.5 hr, 2 hr. on station, and back home. Coming and going, I'd ride in nose as could kind of recline and snooze. No one said anything about NATOPs, and nifty view, especially t/o and approach, but mostly at night.

However, I was an AF brat and Dad went to Maxwell for Command and Staff school in '57, where I was in CAP. Their base hacks were TB-25Js which all the students used to get their flight time each month. We'd hang around base ops on weekends, and cadge rides ... and that was the most panoramic view w/o Norden or gun.

They'd been moded to remove most of framing, and most students were end of WWII officers who took advantage of the freedom these unstructured qual flights offered. It was big fun to run below hilltop level through the Tennessee valleys, hoping they kept track of when one of the TVA dams was coming up around the next bend.

Dad had done a Barksdale SAC tour just before then, and they'd take CAP cadets along on KC-97L refueling missions. There's an instructor's pad alongside the boom operator, both lying on stomach, the ideal place to look at B-47s hooking up and wave at the pilots.

Since there were dual controls, one time they put a killer cute girl cadet in the primary position, all dolled up with mascara and lipstick, and when the bomber swung into position, he found himself looking into the face of a redheaded Shirley Temple look-a-like!

A far cry from today when budget restrictions and anal regulations are shutting down Armed Forces Days, TV event flyovers, and fuel restrictions have pilots retiring after 20 years with less than 3000 hours. I had logged that much civilian time when I joined the Navy at 18!

Sorry if this seems like bragging ... was not exceptional back then.

Great experiences! Summer of '60 we had orientation activities and I got to ride in the KC-97 both on the instructor's pad and on the ironing board. Allowed to "fly" the boom, same to me gently as if in a light plane, of course no refuelling. About 10 minutes in the co pilots seat, I found I could not keep altitude within 100 feet. Too much light plane time. Later, another day, in the right seat of KC-135, I asked why I could keep the 135 on exact altitude and not the KC-97. "Because we have swept wings which gives more stability. You have to fly the 97 all the time," was the answer.

 

[fannum]

Great experiences! Summer of '60 we had orientation activities, and I got to ride in the KC-97 both on the instructor's pad and on the ironing board. Allowed to "fly" the boom, same to me gently as if in a light plane, of course no refueling. About 10 minutes in the copilot's seat, I found I could not keep altitude within 100 feet. Too much light plane time. Later, another day, in the right seat of KC-135, I asked why I could keep the 135 on exact altitude and not the KC-97. "Because we have swept wings which gives more stability. You have to fly the 97 all the time," was the answer.

You may recall that in order to refuel the swoopy B-47s, the KC-97s were overmatched, and upgraded their R4360s and scabbed on some J47s in wing pods, and lowered altitude for refueling to gain a few knots on the bomber's stall/controllable speed. They'd hook up well below 20k', and as the B-47 took on more fuel and got more sluggish, they'd finish off in a descent to gain a bit of margin.
It was a careful balance with Vmax in front and Vmin behind.
The KC-97 retained its Stratocruiser smoothness in cruise, albeit noisy and cold inside without the civilian heaters and insulation. However, once the corncob engines were firewalled and jets lit prior to refueling, it became a quivering, bucking bronco, often referred to as the "Relaxicizor" mode, referring to vibrating wide belt on a pole that was supposed to shake off extra pounds.

 

[MIflyer]

"On August 21, 2024, a U.S. Air Force KC-46A Pegasus tanker (WIDE12) and two F-15E Strike Eagles (NOBLE41 and NOBLE42) were involved in a refueling mishap off the coast of California. The aircraft were enforcing a temporary flight restriction during President Biden's visit to Santa Ynez."

The boom fell off the KC-46.

 

[SaparotRob]

Oy.

 

[Denniss]

Airbus is probably still laughing that they basically forced Boeing to undercut their bid so Boeing actually loses money with the contract.
Not that their MRTTs are free of problems as they had several boom losses on prototypes.

 

[MIflyer]

However, once the corncob engines were firewalled and jets lit prior to refueling, it became a quivering, bucking bronco, often referred to as the "Relaxicizor" mode, referring to vibrating wide belt on a pole that was supposed to shake off extra pounds.

The KC-97J was the turboprop powered version. While it dd not enter into production, for a time it was kept at Tinker AFB, where the commanding general used it as his personal hack. It was quite the hot rod.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

"On August 21, 2024, a U.S. Air Force KC-46A Pegasus tanker (WIDE12) and two F-15E Strike Eagles (NOBLE41 and NOBLE42) were involved in a refueling mishap off the coast of California. The aircraft were enforcing a temporary flight restriction during President Biden's visit to Santa Ynez."

The boom fell off the KC-46.

I read about this earlier this week. Not good. Apparently the electronics running the video feeds get the boomers a little queasy, from what I gathered.

My buddy Bartchie was a boomer. We met at Chanute in 1989, fellow guitarists who met at the Rec hall, and he wound up with an ARW deployed to Lajes to support trans-Atlantic flights for Desert Shield in 1990. His plane had to divert once to my base at Moron and we met by chance in the E-club and got good and toasted. He told me I should apply to cross-train. He loved his job.

I wasn't going to do that, I was doing my four and getting out, but a little more than a year later my unit flew out to Roswell on a -135 for some exercise or other and on the flight over had to hook up a BUFF for gassing. I cadged the crew enough and got to lay in the bubble below for part of it. That shit was amazing. The airmanship involved is incredible, and from that one short experience I can see a little bit why trying to do this video-game style might be skeezy. "Insert Tab A into Slot B" reads nice in the booklet. The A1C I watched flying the boom was doing it by touch.

 

[MIflyer]

A group of civilians at Tinker AFB were going TDY in a KC-135 and one decided to ride in the boomer's position. After they got to altitude some of the others came back to enjoy the view and found the guy who had been there from the start almost unable to talk. When the airplane rotated at takeoff he saw the runway rush up so quickly that he was sure it was going to smash through the window.