Airspeed Horsa

[EwenS]

Ewen, thanks for the info. I find it very frustrating that I never asked more info from my parents and grand-parents regarding war service, both in WWI and WWII!
So they were at last to send out Horsas to the Far East for Japan operations, but I don't see the problem with sending them out as they were delivered to the Maintenance Units in semi-kit form from the manufacturers (see attached pic). Do you know how the Wacos got there as the problems were even greater getting them to China than getting the Horsas to India. Were they also transported in kit form and from where?

As background info you might find the CG-4A manual of interest.

Waco CG-4A Glider Pilots Flight Operating Instructions.pdf

View and download Waco CG-4A Glider Pilots Flight Operating Instructions.pdf on DocDroid

www.docdroid.com

This article, while based on US experience in Europe, contains a few snippets about the difficulties your father would have faced flying a glider behind the tow aircraft.

Operation Varsity: Flying Gliders Across the Rhine

By Christopher Warner March 24, 1945. The green light flashed from the C-47 tug plane, prompting the glider pilot being pulled behind it to release his tow rope over Landing Zone N, just east of the Rhine River. A steady barrage of German antiaircraft flak blackened the sky as tracer bullets...

warfarehistorynetwork.com

Another of the scarier things he might have had to practice. The glider snatch!

NWWIIGPA-GliderPickup

National Association of World War II Glider Pilots

www.ww2gp.org

As I recall, the CG-4A, in kit form would fit into a C-46.

New one on me. I haven't checked the dimensions but I think it must have involved multiple aircraft if it was possible. Any more details?

Can't immediately think why you would even want to do it. The C-46 & C-47 were capable of towing several CG-4A simultaneously. So why try to pack a single one inside the C-46? And when it came to recovering them from the battlefield they were considered expendable if damaged, or there was always the glider snatch method I referred to above.

 

[Technik1]

Maybe a bit late but to shed some info as I did a lot of the research into the paint schemes and markings for the Horsa model collection in the original post.

The Horsa had two basic schemes - the training scheme and the operational scheme. The training scheme is what we lovingly refer to the "bumble bee" scheme which is based on the RAF target tug markings and the operational scheme which was black with the colours of the upper camouflage changing depending on the theater of operations. Airspeed prepared drawings for both schemes - 601011 for training and 601012 for operational.

Of the original batch of 200 gliders they started to leave the production line painted in the training scheme - some of the earlier ones having their serials under the wings in red as per the Airspeed drawing but they removed them fairly soon after. These are the ones you often see in photos used by the Glider Pilot Exercise Unit at Netheravon/Thruxton and Heavy Glider Conversion Unit at Brize Norton up to around 1943.

Where things get a bit muddy is around the various changes in the Air Ministry Orders for aircraft camouflage - in short it stated that all training gliders should have the striped scheme and all Operational/OTU gliders should have the same camouflage as their heavy bomber tugs.

The Heavy Glider Conversion unit was considered for all intents and purposes an operational unit - because it was doing type conversion for pilots from the Hotspur to the Horsa plus operational refresher training. Hence, after about mid 1943 all their striped Horsa gliders got repainted.

So at 23 HGCU Peplow they would have had the black operational colour scheme with a training aircraft ident number on the fuselage. I can't tell you which position and colour they were - it seems 21 HGCU used white preferring the front of the fuselage, other units put it in front of the rear roundel. Officially it was meant to be red but empircally it seems not - though the remaining Mk.II fuselage at Middle Wallop does have a painted over red ID on the loading door.

Do you have the serial of the glider he flew? If not I can offer RX647 or RX660 which where Horsa Mk.I at the unit in November '44.

Also, there were two camouflage paint schemes, depending on whether the a/c serial number was an odd number or an even one; the odd-numbered ones used "scheme A", while the even numbered used "scheme B". The difference was that the colours (either brown & green or grey & green) were reversed or "mirrored".

 

[Wavertree]

Also, there were two camouflage paint schemes, depending on whether the a/c serial number was an odd number or an even one; the odd-numbered ones used "scheme A", while the even numbered used "scheme B". The difference was that the colours (either brown & green or grey & green) were reversed or "mirrored".

Thanks, Tecknik 1. Difficult to know what is meant by an odd or even serial number - The one glider my dad flew was RN364/3 - is this an odd (/3) or even (364)? After he flew this one five times (in one day!!) he then flew others where the a/c serial was not used, just a a single or double digit - this would have been the large number painted by the main door. These varied from "05" to "18" (five different a/c). The same applied to the Hadrian he flew that was recorded as "49". Your information on the paint schemes is especially interesting as I am proof reading and editing a book on the various paint schemes of the South African Air Force aircraft from 1913 through to 1941. This will be the first in a series up to around 1984 and I am wading through the technicalities of the Temperate Land (and other) Scheme colours. I did not know that Thruxton was used for glider training - I used to be at boarding school very near there, visited it often, and knew the Doran-Webb family very well who owned it! The Thruxton Jackaroo was built there, but the biggest thrill as an Air Force Cadet was guarding a twin-seater Spitfire!

 

[SaparotRob]

It is an example of Air Chief Marshal Leigh-Mallory's forward thinking to confound future aviation modelers.
A cunning plan.

 

[EwenS]

Also, there were two camouflage paint schemes, depending on whether the a/c serial number was an odd number or an even one; the odd-numbered ones used "scheme A", while the even numbered used "scheme B". The difference was that the colours (either brown & green or grey & green) were reversed or "mirrored".

AIUI the A / B mirror paint schemes were phased out in 1940/41 in order to simplify production. Given that the Horsa didn't fly until Sept 1941, I would have thought that there was only the one pattern applied to them. A quick trawl of the 'net seems to show them all with the same pattern. Happy to have someone point me in the direction of others.

Many US types supplied to the RAF and FAA retained the US camouflage scheme of Olive Drab over Neutral Gray. While some CG-4A Hadrians in Britain seem to have acquired RAF style disruptive pattern camouflage, those in India seem to have retained their US colours.

 

[Technik1]

AIUI the A / B mirror paint schemes were phased out in 1940/41 in order to simplify production. Given that the Horsa didn't fly until Sept 1941, I would have thought that there was only the one pattern applied to them. A quick trawl of the 'net seems to show them all with the same pattern. Happy to have someone point me in the direction of others.

Many US types supplied to the RAF and FAA retained the US camouflage scheme of Olive Drab over Neutral Gray. While some CG-4A Hadrians in Britain seem to have acquired RAF style disruptive pattern camouflage, those in India seem to have retained their US colours.

I used "Aircraft of the Fighting Powers" 1943 (Vol.3, I think), where the A/B paint schemes were stated. The Horsa's definitely did use this scheme. Also, Airspeed, who designed (and built) many of these, were wholly owned by de-Havilland, who were absolute sticklers for "getting things right". I have seen photos of Portsmouth and Christchurch (U.K.) airfields with large numbers of them picketed in the open air.

Hope this helps!

 

[Technik1]

Thanks, Tecknik 1. Difficult to know what is meant by an odd or even serial number - The one glider my dad flew was RN364/3 - is this an odd (/3) or even (364)? After he flew this one five times (in one day!!) he then flew others where the a/c serial was not used, just a a single or double digit - this would have been the large number painted by the main door. These varied from "05" to "18" (five different a/c). The same applied to the Hadrian he flew that was recorded as "49". Your information on the paint schemes is especially interesting as I am proof reading and editing a book on the various paint schemes of the South African Air Force aircraft from 1913 through to 1941. This will be the first in a series up to around 1984 and I am wading through the technicalities of the Temperate Land (and other) Scheme colours. I did not know that Thruxton was used for glider training - I used to be at boarding school very near there, visited it often, and knew the Doran-Webb family very well who owned it! The Thruxton Jackaroo was built there, but the biggest thrill as an Air Force Cadet was guarding a twin-seater Spitfire!

It may be that the serial was RN364/G - the "G" indicating that the aircraft was to be kept guarded by an armed guard at all times. If so, it would have been an odd-number serial.
A single or double large digit was used by the Army, to identify which troops were to board which glider (normally, but not always, this was the last/last two digits of the serial. Interestingly, my dad (a young lad at the time) was evacuated to Carshalton!

All the best with your research and getting the books published!

 

[Wavertree]

I used "Aircraft of the Fighting Powers" 1943 (Vol.3, I think), where the A/B paint schemes were stated. The Horsa's definitely did use this scheme. Also, Airspeed, who designed (and built) many of these, were wholly owned by de-Havilland, who were absolute sticklers for "getting things right". I have seen photos of Portsmouth and Christchurch (U.K.) airfields with large numbers of them picketed in the open air.

Hope this helps!

Certainly the pics of the Horsa gliders waiting to take off show the Dark Green/Dark Earth cammo. The one thing that puzzles me is the photos taken of landing zones after they have all landed - all the gliders do not seem to be painted as if they are all a uniform colour! Have got photos where the cammo scheme clearly shows up after landing?

 

[SaparotRob]

Great thread.

 

[Technik1]

Certainly the pics of the Horsa gliders waiting to take off show the Dark Green/Dark Earth cammo. The one thing that puzzles me is the photos taken of landing zones after they have all landed - all the gliders do not seem to be painted as if they are all a uniform colour! Have got photos where the cammo scheme clearly shows up after landing?

It may be down to the different makes of films used in the cameras - during the period, Kodak were trying to standardise, but other firms were trying out films such as the "Chroma" system, where, if the standard (what is now termed C41) developer was used for colour films, what should be red would turn out black, blues would be various shades of lurid- to hideous yellowish-greens (aka vomit-shades!)

It may also be due to the time of day - even now, I can find that, with a digital SLR, the difference in light quality between sunrise, full midday and sunset can make for some unusual and interesting hues and tones of colour!

Also, there were the censors - they could - and did - do all kinds of effects with their airbrushes, with no concern for history.

 

[Technik1]

It is an example of Air Chief Marshal Leigh-Mallory's forward thinking to confound future aviation modelers.
A cunning plan.

Yes - as well as MRAF "Boom" Trenchard's non-linear approach - to confound everybody!

 

[Jed]

There was no A/B Scheme for the Horsa. I can say this for certain based on written documentation, empirical evidence and the original Airspeed drawings.

Colours can look reversed for two reason - Orthochromatic film or you're looking at a glider with the Mediterranean colour scheme. In the first instance there are subtle clues like anything yellow appearing black. A good example of this is some of the photographs of the prototype DG597 taken at Heathrow. The entire underside looks black when in fact it's bright yellow. Same issue on the "P" marking and outer ring of the fuselage roundel. The Mediterranean scheme looks reversed because of the replacement of Dark Earth with Middle Stone which is lighter.

Also from a logistical standpoint, two schemes would make no sense. All of the sub assemblies were made by contractors and painted before they left the factory. The serial number belonged to the centre fuselage section so there's no concept of odd/even when it came to the wings, cockpit, tail, etc. It would have been a pain for 41 Group who stored all the components and the maintenance units to assemble gliders ensuring you had the right stock of A/B painted parts. There is a picture of DP288 that illustrates this where it needed a new tail during the period the training scheme was being phased out and as a result has an all back tail and rudder instead of camo.

RN364/3 is more than likely the pilot noting the serial + identification number painted on the side by the HGMU. There was nothing particularly special about RN364 to warrant a guard notation as it basically spent its entire life as a training glider until it was scrapped in the 50s.

Side note as someone mentioned the Hadrian - Slingsby were directed to design the training and operational camo for it as they were doing most of the work on modifying the GC-4A for RAF use. I've never seen one painted in the operational scheme and my suspicion is that they simply never did after they were delivered. One thing to note, the RAF did distinguish between the Hadrian and Waco - the latter being the GC-4A as delivered with no RAF modifications. Both were in use, in fact most of the GC-4As delivered to the RAF in operational theatures were Wacos, not Hadrians. In fact in the UK, most of the training schools were using Wacos for a while - No.38 Group on their own initiative "procured" them from US Transport Command but failed to report it up the chain of command. There was a mad scramble at one point to aduit them all and give them RAF serial numbers but this why there are many photos of Glider pilots training at Brize Norton with "Hadrians" that have US serial numbers and camoflauge. All they did was add RAF Roundels and an ident number.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

The lists in Air Arsenal North America of CG-4A sent to the RAF can be the actual serials, that is from A to B, but in several cases actually mean selected serials between A and B. The lists in The British Air Commission and Lend Lease by K J Meekcoms are better. The references do not deal with the theatre transfers in Europe except the final post VE day ones.

Next is the British Import and Export reports use Waco, which means the 6 CG-13 are possibly counted with the CG-4, they were exported in September 1944, with 2 for Britain and 4 for India, the UK reports Waco imports only in 1943. There are no reports of Waco exported from Britain.

The RAF used CG-4 drawn from USAAF stocks for the invasion of Sicily, the general consensus is 22 CG-4 arrived in Britain, including 1 successfully towed across the Atlantic in July 1943, FR579, it and FR580 were sent to Canada as part of the operation with FR580 marked Canada 31 August 1945 in the RAF Serial Registers. Despite this as of end June 1944 the RAF Census AIR 20/1871 says Hadrian, 50 in Britain, 51 en route from US to non UK destination, 9 in SEAAC, total 110, plus 1 instructional, 4 lost in UK, 2 lost in transit and 1 census query, total 118, meaning 55 at least had made it to the RAF Britain, indicating some theatre transfers from the USAAF. The British state 6 were sent to Canada, the rest to India.

The USAAF ADO-478 report is Lend-Lease acceptances, deliveries and exports, the report was published monthly and continually updated to take into account post acceptance/delivery transfers from US stocks, whether in US or overseas, as well as new production allocated to Lend-Lease.

As the latest ADO-478 report available is June 1945 it means there is little USAAF information on the post VE day transfers, Meekcoms notes these comprised 46 from the US to India (note September 1945 imports below), 80 transferred in India from USAAF stocks and 321 transferred in Britain of which 274 were meant for India. Air Arsenal North America reports the order was for 600 aircraft, including at least 200 for training in Britain, all up 1,078 RAF serials allocated, of which 344 were actually issued for CG-4 in Britain, the VJ and VK serial blocks.

The main wartime order was BSC 40236 for 694 aircraft, starting with examples for evaluation in 1943, then came the export surge March to October 1944, with the USAAF allocating a mixture of new and months old aircraft from stocks, of the 774 CG-4A reported accepted for Britain the December 1944 the ADO-478 report has 360 listed as diversions from US Stocks, plus another 24 serials marked as diversions that did not go to the RAF, all up 80 CG-4 selected for the RAF were not sent by end June 1945.

The serial list in Meekoms and the ADO-478 report agree the breakdown of the CG-4A sent to the RAF was 2 Cessna, 113 Commonwealth, 228 Ford, 13 G&A Aircraft, 59 General Aircraft, 49 Gibson Electric, 20 Laister-Kaufman, 25 Northwestern, 106 Pratt-Read, 23 Ridgefield/Jenter, 2 Robertson, 16 Timm, 38 Waco, total 694, but this is after adding 2 missed Robertson and 3 missed Waco exports to the ADO-478 figures. The table below omits these. The US sent 694 CG-4A to end 1944, 2 were lost at sea, the British report receiving 686 to end January 1945, including the 6 to Canada. Somewhere there are 6 missing. Also worth noticing is the first British imports were in January 1943, the first US exports in February, the US says 2 exports to Canada in June 1943, the British say they arrived in October.

Month	US	US	US	Imports
Month	Accept	Deliv	Export	Canada	India	UK	Total
Oct-42​	2​	2​	0​
Nov-42​	2​	0​	0​
Dec-42​	0​	0​	0​
Jan-43​	20​	12​	0​			2​	2​
Feb-43​	0​	10​	12​
Mar-43​	0​	0​	10​
Apr-43​	0​	0​	0​			18​	18​
May-43​	0​	0​	0​
Jun-43​	1​	0​	2​
Jul-43​	14​	8​	0​			1​	1​
Aug-43​	25​	14​	0​
Sep-43​	68​	61​	0​
Oct-43​	80​	104​	0​	2​			2​
Nov-43​	4​	5​	0​
Dec-43​	104​	54​	20​
Jan-44​	63​	77​	0​
Feb-44​	47​	79​	0​		10​		10​
Mar-44​	44​	29​	40​		10​		10​
Apr-44​	80​	47​	20​
May-44​	47​	64​	30​
Jun-44​	37​	46​	50​
Jul-44​	92​	93​	109​		70​		70​
Aug-44​	37​	62​	78​		85​		85​
Sep-44​	7​	7​	213​		60​		60​
Oct-44​	0​	0​	104​	4​	59​		63​
Nov-44​	0​	0​	1​		217​		217​
Dec-44​	0​	0​	0​		107​		107​
Jan-45​	0​	0​	0​		41​		41​
Feb-45​	0​	0​	0​
Mar-45​	0​	0​	0​
Apr-45​	0​	0​	0​
May-45​	0​	0​	0​
Jun-45​	0​	0​	0​
Jul-45​	0​	0​	0​
Aug-45​	0​	0​	0​
Sep-45​	0​	0​	0​		46​		46​
1942​	4​	2​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​
1943​	316​	268​	44​	2​	0​	21​	23​
1944​	460​	510​	651​	4​	618​	0​	622​
1945​	0​	0​	0​	0​	87​	0​	87​
Total	774​	774​	689​	6​	705​	21​	732​

Remember 5 exports are not in the table and the US figures end in June 1945, before the post VE day allocations were made and ADO-478 is altered to keep track of all USAAF Lend Lease aircraft.