"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (5 Viewers)

[Thumpalumpacus]

Remember, Moldova is former Romanian territory with a larger ethnic Romanian population and there have been recent (as of late last year) talks about reunification.
Romania has stated on several occasions they will defend it if nessecary.

If the ole memory chipset is working right, they claimed Bessarabia in 39 or 40 as part of the Ribbentrop Pact. That's most of modern Moldova. I don't doubt that if they succeed in Ukraine now, Moldova is next on the menu, in a few years.

 

[GrauGeist]

First of all, the Ukraine is a sovereign nation with internationally recognized borders.

There is no "agreement" or "concession", Russia has illegally invaded with the intention of conquering that sovereign nation regardless.

This cannot be tolerated, condoned nor appeased.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yep and as a NATO member, there would be article 5 considerations there as well.

Moldova is not a member of NATO -- Article Five would not apply.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Perhaps it's time to re-negotiate some treaties, as long as we're discussing financing, eh Comrade?

Right, the Russians weren't shy in claiming Port Arthur.

 

[wlewisiii]

Moldova is not a member of NATO -- Article Five would not apply.

Romania is. If they rejoin Romania and Putin refuses to accept that, then it will apply.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

If Ukraine wins and gets its 2014 borders back and make off like bandits then it still has a problem.

Putin and Russia. Which are still there!

Not read a word on how Putin or Russian power can be cut off. How is that possible?

End of the day even the best case scenario is still not satisfactory as the root cause of the problem is still there.

So unless someone has a foolproof plan then apart from wish dreams and moonbeams it's going to be a tight one.

Of course Ukraine will always have that problem. Big neighbors can make for a tough neighborhood.

But what's being said is not "wish dreams and moonbeams", rather, it's that not fighting it out now invites further bullying and depredation. The Ukrainians ain't surrendering, and I admire that. We've got a saying down here in the South -- "It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."

Ukraine is a small dog with a bunch of fight.

They don't need to win. They need to not lose. I don't think they will lose.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Romania is. If they rejoin Romania and Putin refuses to accept that, then it will apply.

Gotcha, sorry my reading was subpar.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I don't doubt that if they succeed in Ukraine now, Moldova is next on the menu, in a few years.

Agreed

Didn't the leader of Belarus not show forces moving into Moldova on his map?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Of course Ukraine will always have that problem. Big neighbors can make for a tough neighborhood.

But what's being said is not "wish dreams and moonbeams", rather, it's that not fighting it out now invites further bullying and depredation. The Ukrainians ain't surrendering, and I admire that. We've got a saying down here in the South -- "It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."

Ukraine is a small dog with a bunch of fight.

They don't need to win. They need to not lose. I don't think they will lose.

Very good point. Ukraine does not have to win, it just has to hold on long enough that Russia can't.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Zelenskyy calls Mariupol terror a war crime; Russia uses first hypersonic missile: March 19 recap

Evacuations from besieged cities proceeded Saturday along eight of 10 humanitarian corridors, Ukraine's Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk said.

www.yahoo.com

 

[GrauGeist]

Agreed

Didn't the leader of Belarus not show forces moving into Moldova on his map?

May have been Transneistra, which is A Russian occupied territory - which has a similar history to Donnas, too.
Though I don't doubt that Moldova is in Putler's sights.

Unlike the Ukraine, however, Moldova is a poor nation and has virtually no military.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So Ukraine should just say fuck it, go ahead take our lands, and come back for some whenever you feel like it.

No, they shouldn't. Has anyone here suggested that? But Ukraine can't take Moscow and can't take out Putin - instead Ukraine must focus on achievable goals. The best Ukraine can do is take back as much land as possible before agreeing to an armistice and beginning negotiations. My worry is that the West, losing interest and wanting to return to global business, pressures Ukraine to accept the first olive branch no matter their situation.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No, they shouldn't. Has anyone here suggested that? But Ukraine can't take Moscow and can't take out Putin - instead Ukraine must focus on achievable goals. The best Ukraine can do is take back as much land as possible before agreeing to an armistice and beginning negotiations. My worry is that the West, losing interest and wanting to return to global business, pressures Ukraine to accept the first olive branch no matter their situation.

Sure there are. Read the posts. The Basket thinks Ukraine needs to agree to Russia's demands for short term peace. Those demands are a neutral state (no issues with this), recognizing Crimea as Russian, and giving up the disputed areas that Russia recognizes as independent.

 

[GrauGeist]

My worry is that the West, losing interest and wanting to return to global business, pressures Ukraine to accept the first olive branch no matter their situation.

The West won't lose interest.
The Ukraine has been part of NATO programs and EU cooperation since the 90's - as far as the Ukraine accepting any olive branch, it will be only when Russia and it's operatives leave it's sovereign boundaries.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The West won't lose interest.
The Ukraine has been part of NATO programs and EU cooperation since the 90's - as far as the Ukraine accepting any olive branch, it will be only when Russia and it's operatives leave it's sovereign boundaries.

The west cannot and will not lose interest because what happens here is in the west's interests. If Russia is successful here they will grow bolder and will want an even bigger piece of the pie.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The west cannot and will not lose interest because what happens here is in the west's interests. If Russia is successful here they will grow bolder and will want an even bigger piece of the pie.

What would reassure me and likely Ukraine is if the USA and NATO declared unambiguously and publicly the terms they are willing to accept as an official end of the conflict. I suspect the return of Crimea will not be one of them, but a full or partial (to pre-war lines) return of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions to full Ukraine control will likely be one.

 

[SaparotRob]

Ask anyway (demand). Then bargain.

 

[wlewisiii]

Even the cats are fighting in Ukraine...

 

[JDCAVE]

I cannot see the Putin regime in Russia surviving the combined debacle in Ukraine and the crushing demise of the economy due to sanctions. It might take several years, but remember the collapse of the Soviet Union was an economic one on the heels of the prolonged war in Afghanistan. While we may not know how this happens at this time, I cannot see how Putin will not survive this. Something has to break here.

Jim

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

What would reassure me and likely Ukraine is if the USA and NATO declared unambiguously and publicly the terms they are willing to accept as an official end of the conflict. I suspect the return of Crimea will not be one of them, but a full or partial (to pre-war lines) return of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions to full Ukraine control will likely be one.

What makes you think the USA and NATO can declare terms? You cannot declare terms if you are not at war. The only country that has any right to declare terms is the sovereign state of Ukraine. It is their country, and they get to decide.