well just consider two facts like this - surprise HARM missile use by Ukrainians and that polish MiG-29s have been equipped with Israeli made mission computer as well MiLStd 1553B data bus wired hardpoints....
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"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again."
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Admiral Beez
Major
I'm not so sure. We've already discussed how by mid-July the US had made no decision to supply F-16. Assuming a decision to go ahead on F-16s was finally made by late July or early August, the consensus here is that training plus logistics, parts and maintenance would take many months. As such the F-16 won't be in UAF service until we'll into spring/summer 2023.
As such, I suggest the first manned Western-designed aircraft to enter UAF service are likely to be something simpler; perhaps LCAs (though IDK if training would be any faster than on the F-16), or utility helicopters and transports.
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i would say your proposal is controversional at least - you really would like to put Ukrainian pilots in LCA and send them in combat against VKS? over territorry densly occupied with all kinds of air defence? and what is the point sending them transport airplanes? you may not train pilots and maintainers with western made utility helicopters and then convert them in one simple move to F-16 riders - it does not working this way. Air Force it is pure logistic/ technology game - as you said, fighting pilot it is very important but just one of many components of this puzzle. Truly said im less worried how fast pilots adjust to western combat airplanes - i'm sure Ukrainians will send battle hardened guys for training and simulators perfectly speed up this process but maitenance staff is different story - to be generally profficient on this field 6 month of time is minimum and previous experience will help you just little.
Admiral Beez
Major
I propose nothing. Instead I predict that we'll see other Western-designed aircraft enter UAF service before the F-16. I don't know if and do not propose that Ukraine fly its existing Albatros or other LCAs against the Russians; but it wouldn't surprise me, as you use what you've got. I also did not suggest converting rotary pilots into F-16 pilots, but only that Western-designed helicopters are more likely to arrive into UAF service earlier than the F-16.
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Admiral Beez
Major
Notwithstanding the incredible risks of taking it into combat, the Albatros does look good in UAF colours.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I've worked on these - unless they are "ZA" models, the trainer versions have to be modified to carry weapons, not impossible but another issue. Additionally the trainer versions are not as robust as the ZA and may have structural issues with stores and heavy useage.
I'd bet most of not all of the UAF pilots received their training in the L39
"Rumour intelligence " says that Ukrainian Air Force preferences today are either F-16 or Grippen. F-16 gets slightly more votes. Pros and cons are being discussed continuously. There is a growing "pro US lobby" whose main argument is that only USA industry can be a reliable supplier of the whole systems (and not just airborne) with training, spares, upgrades, etc - long term.What do we predict will be the first NATO or Western designed manned military aircraft supplied post invasion to be operated by the UAF? As I understand it, Ukraine hasn't received a single fixed wing or rotary aircraft, combat, transport or civilian from any NATO or Western countries since the invasion.
Ukrainian Air Force - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This link shows one aircraft from a now NATO member, the Aero L-39 Albatros. I assume these were provided to Ukraine before the Feb invasion.
View attachment 684283
That's it, not a single Western-designed aircraft of any sort yet provided.
In my search I had a look at Ukraine's civil airlines. This appeal from one to the West caught my eye, Flight booking, cheap airline tickets, cheap air flights - SkyUp Airlines.
we had the same discussion in Poland 10 years ago - but finally it comes to the point that US is making decision - Grippen is made with serious share US origin parts - if uncle Sam is interested in the deal Grippen is on loosing position - in one company i use to worked for such situation has been called "competition nice to have"
Admiral Beez
Major
I was surprised that Brazil took the Gripen over a US model. I recall that the Snowden affair temporarily rattled US-Brazil relations and may have poisoned the US offering. But not sufficiently so for the US to block SAAB's tech transfer to Brazil.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine/KYIV, Aug 29 (Reuters) - Ukraine announced on Monday the start of a long-awaited counter-offensive to retake territory in the south seized by Russian forces since their invasion six months ago, a move reflecting Kyiv's growing confidence as Western military aid flows in.
[...]
"Today we started offensive actions in various directions, including in the Kherson region," Ukrainian public broadcaster Suspilne cited southern command spokeswoman Natalia Humeniuk as saying.
[...]
Ukraine has been using sophisticated Western-supplied weapons to hit Russian ammunition dumps and wreak havoc with supply lines. Humeniuk told a briefing on Monday that Ukraine had struck more than 10 such ammunition dumps in the past week, adding they had "unquestionably weakened the enemy".
She declined to give details of the counter-offensive, saying Russian forces in southern Ukraine remained "quite powerful".
www.reuters.com
Now we'll see how much of my post #9626 above comes to pass.
[...]
"Today we started offensive actions in various directions, including in the Kherson region," Ukrainian public broadcaster Suspilne cited southern command spokeswoman Natalia Humeniuk as saying.
[...]
Ukraine has been using sophisticated Western-supplied weapons to hit Russian ammunition dumps and wreak havoc with supply lines. Humeniuk told a briefing on Monday that Ukraine had struck more than 10 such ammunition dumps in the past week, adding they had "unquestionably weakened the enemy".
She declined to give details of the counter-offensive, saying Russian forces in southern Ukraine remained "quite powerful".
Ukraine launches counter-offensive in south as Russia shells port city
Ukrainian troops bolstered by stepped-up Western military aid launched a long-awaited counter-offensive to retake territory in the south on Monday as Russian forces shelled residential areas of the Black Sea port city of Mykolaiv.
www.reuters.com
Now we'll see how much of my post #9626 above comes to pass.
Glider
Captain
An additional report from the Daily Telegraph. I do hope this is true, certainly something seems to be happeningZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine/KYIV, Aug 29 (Reuters) - Ukraine announced on Monday the start of a long-awaited counter-offensive to retake territory in the south seized by Russian forces since their invasion six months ago, a move reflecting Kyiv's growing confidence as Western military aid flows in.
[...]
"Today we started offensive actions in various directions, including in the Kherson region," Ukrainian public broadcaster Suspilne cited southern command spokeswoman Natalia Humeniuk as saying.
[...]
Ukraine has been using sophisticated Western-supplied weapons to hit Russian ammunition dumps and wreak havoc with supply lines. Humeniuk told a briefing on Monday that Ukraine had struck more than 10 such ammunition dumps in the past week, adding they had "unquestionably weakened the enemy".
She declined to give details of the counter-offensive, saying Russian forces in southern Ukraine remained "quite powerful".
Ukraine launches counter-offensive in south as Russia shells port city
Ukrainian troops bolstered by stepped-up Western military aid launched a long-awaited counter-offensive to retake territory in the south on Monday as Russian forces shelled residential areas of the Black Sea port city of Mykolaiv.
Now we'll see how much of my post #9626 above comes to pass.
MSN
The major operation appeared to start overnight with Himars strikes on Russian command centres and bridges, cutting off a supply of weapons and reinforcements to Russian forces in Kherson from occupied Crimea.
There were also unconfirmed reports that Ukraine's armed forces had used tanks, artillery and aviation to break through the first line of Russian defences near Kherson.
The Kakhovka group of Ukrainian soldiers claimed they had forced the 109th regiment of the so-called people's militia of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic from their defensive positions.
"In the Kherson region, Russian troops have moved away from their positions, paratroopers are fleeing the battlefield, " the Kakhovka Operational Group of Troops said in a Facebook post on Monday.
Footage shared online appeared to show stockpiles of ammunition at an abandoned Russian position in the Kherson Oblast.
According to early reports from the Odesa-based Dumskaya newspaper, Ukraine's armed forces liberated a number of settlements after launching their counter-offensive from the right bank of the Dnipro River.
Residents in the occupied town of Nova Kakhovka with Russian SIM cards were warned to evacuate the area by Kremlin-installed officials.
"An evacuation has been announced today during the day, the siren has been sounding most of the day. People have left their jobs, they are in bomb shelters," said the city's Russia-installed governor Vladimir Leontiev.
Admiral Beez
Major
God speed Ukraine! I can only hope that the NATO-led supply chain is up to speed on the tens of thousands of artillery shells, rockets and small arms ammunition that will quickly be used at much higher rate. And that NATO recon satellites and SIGINT are in place. It's not going to be fun to be Russian general needing to use radio communications.An additional report from the Daily Telegraph. I do hope this is true, certainly something seems to be happening
MSN
www.msn.com
The major operation appeared to start overnight with Himars strikes on Russian command centres and bridges, cutting off a supply of weapons and reinforcements to Russian forces in Kherson from occupied Crimea.
There were also unconfirmed reports that Ukraine's armed forces had used tanks, artillery and aviation to break through the first line of Russian defences near Kherson.
The Kakhovka group of Ukrainian soldiers claimed they had forced the 109th regiment of the so-called people's militia of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic from their defensive positions.
"In the Kherson region, Russian troops have moved away from their positions, paratroopers are fleeing the battlefield, " the Kakhovka Operational Group of Troops said in a Facebook post on Monday.
Footage shared online appeared to show stockpiles of ammunition at an abandoned Russian position in the Kherson Oblast.
According to early reports from the Odesa-based Dumskaya newspaper, Ukraine's armed forces liberated a number of settlements after launching their counter-offensive from the right bank of the Dnipro River.
Residents in the occupied town of Nova Kakhovka with Russian SIM cards were warned to evacuate the area by Kremlin-installed officials.
"An evacuation has been announced today during the day, the siren has been sounding most of the day. People have left their jobs, they are in bomb shelters," said the city's Russia-installed governor Vladimir Leontiev.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Could it be that's what Ukraine had been waiting for? I follow a YouTuber named Jake Broe, he covers investing and the Russian invasion of Ukraine as of late. He mentioned that new lists of equipment to be sent to Ukraine from the U.S. seem to be announced each week now.
He has an economic take on the war. He mentioned that Putler's biggest enemy is Fed Chairman Jerome Powell. By aggressively tackling inflation, Powell will bankrupt Russia by bringing down the price of oil. If oil gets to about $60 a barrel, Putler's Russia is doomed. India and China will still get a discount on Russia's tainted oil. So that's no help for Putler. There's just so much oil those two countries can take. Especially since there aren't enough/any pipelines to those two.
I hope this doesn't get political.
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buffnut453
Captain
More on the reported Ukrainian breakthrough towards Kherson:
www.bbc.com
Kherson: Ukraine claims new push in Russian-held region
Ukraine is seeking to retake the southern Kherson region - but Russia says the offensive failed.
www.bbc.com
Admiral Beez
Major
Apparently the Russians are fleeing from the Kherson front and the first line of defence has been breached. This is going to be like Battle of the Pelennor Fields.More on the reported Ukrainian breakthrough towards Kherson:
Kherson: Ukraine claims new push in Russian-held region
Ukraine is seeking to retake the southern Kherson region - but Russia says the offensive failed.
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,325
- Jul 5, 2015
Russia’s War on Ukraine: Six Months of Lies, Implemented - United States Department of State
This bulletin is also available in Arabic, Chinese, French, Português, Russian, Spanish, and Ukrainian. “Every day we fight so that everyone on the planet finally understands: we are not a colony, not an enclave, not a protectorate. Not a gubernia, an eyalet or a crown land, not a piece of a...
www.state.gov
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,325
- Jul 5, 2015
'The most important thing is that our children learn': Ukraine rushes to get schools bomb-proofed
Ukrainian authorities are building bomb shelters and repairing thousands of buildings damaged by Russian forces before the school term starts.
www.abc.net.au
NZ soldier who died in Ukraine may never be repatriated
It might not be possible to bring home the body of a New Zealand soldier who was killed fighting in Ukraine, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says.
www.abc.net.au
