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GrauGeist said:
The F-35 will fill the A-10's mission profile, but we'll have to wait and see how it works out.

Unless Putin does something stupid...well, let me rephrase that: unless Putin provokes NATO, then we'll get to see the F-35 go to work.
Click to expand...

That is one expensive replacement. Let us hope its capabilities are equally expen -- er, expansive. Hopefully the anticipated networked drones operating alongside it will be effective in these attacks, allowing the -35 to perform the strike-controller role it would seem to be good for doing.
 
The F-35 is literally a flying force multiplier and will be very capable of assuming the A-10's role, but in a 21st century fashion.
There is no question that the A-10 handled it's targets like wading into a bar-room brawl with a baseball bat, but the F-35 will be able to not only go into a high-threat environment, mapping targets for acquisition and engagement, but provide that information in real-time to other aircraft and ground units at the same time.

It's pretty much like we're seeing real life sci-fi that was only imagined a few decades ago.
 
re the A/OA-10

The US has had at least 1x A/OA-10C squadron in Europe since late-April.

All currently operational A/OA-10 (~170) have been upgraded to the C model, with the following upgrades:

LASTE (Low Altitude Safety & Targeting Enhancement). Provides Ground Collision Avoidance/Low Altitude Autopilot system, which includes the Enhanced Attitude Control system (for stability during gun firing and weapons drop). Includes integration of software for aid in navigation to, and location of target, and targeting via GPS coordinates.

EGI (Embedded GPS & Inertial Navigation System). Integrates improved GPS & INS within an on-board nav system.

IDM (Improved Data Modem) allows secure data link for transfer of data from ground units (primarily FO/FIST/FAC teams and SOF units), including data usable by the LASTE and EGI systems.

SADL (Situational Awareness Data Link).

LITENING ATP (Advanced Targeting Pod) capable. Pod incorporates Daylight and dual-wavelength FLIR HDTV, SADL & JTIDS compatible, Laser Designating/Marking/Multiple Spot Tracking.

Sniper ATP (Advanced Targeting Pod) capable. Pod incorporates Daylight and FLIR HDTV, Laser Designating/Marking/Spot Tracking, video data link compatible with SADL, and supports RTDI (Rapid Target Detection & Identification) and NTISR (Non-Traditional, Intelligence, Surveillance & Reconnaissance) via SADL.

RWR (Radar Warning Receiver).

MWS (Missile Warning System).

Can carry upto 240 chaff and 120 flare in onboard launchers.

HMCS (Helmet Mounted Cueing System). Day or Night capable.

In addition to the LITENING and Sniper pods, various ECM and specialized EW sensor pods can be carried, along with pods for chaff and flare.

Current Mission List
CAS (Close Air Support)
FAC-A (Forward Air Control-Airborne)
SCAR (Strike Control And Reconnaissance)
AI (Air Interdiction)
AM (Anti-Maritime)
CSAR (Combat Search And Rescue)

Current Weapons Capable List (upto 16,000 lbs in addition to GAU-8A cannon)
30mm GAU-8A gatling cannon
dumb bombs from 500 to 2000 lb including cluster bombs
smart bombs from 500 to 2000 lb, including 500 lb LGB & JTID to 2000 lb LGB & JTID
AGM-65 Maverick
AGM-154 JSOW
Hellfire/Brimstone/2.75" LGR
AIM-9 Sidewinder

In addition the A-10 has demonstrated compatibility with other weapons, such as the AGM-84 Harpoon and AGM-88 HARM (see "Best WW2 plane for Ukraine today?"). . . just to mention two.

Plus other stuff . . . :-\"
 
Last edited:
ThomasP said:
re the A/OA-10

The US has had at least 1x A/OA-10C squadron in Europe since late-April.

All currently operational A/OA-10 (~170) have been upgraded to the C model, with the following upgrades:

LASTE (Low Altitude Safety & Targeting Enhancement). Provides Ground Collision Avoidance/Low Altitude Autopilot system, which includes the Enhanced Attitude Control system (for stability during gun firing and weapons drop). Includes integration of software for aid in navigation to, and location of target, and targeting via GPS coordinates.

EGI (Embedded GPS & Inertial Navigation System). Integrates improved GPS & INS within an on-board nav system.

IDM (Improved Data Modem) allows secure data link for transfer of data from ground units (primarily FO/FIST/FAC teams and SOF units), including data usable by the LASTE and EGI systems.

SADL (Situational Awareness Data Link).

LITENING ATP (Advanced Targeting Pod) capable. Pod incorporates Daylight and dual-wavelength FLIR HDTV, SADL & JTIDS compatible, Laser Designating/Marking/Multiple Spot Tracking.

Sniper ATP (Advanced Targeting Pod) capable. Pod incorporates Daylight and FLIR HDTV, Laser Designating/Marking/Spot Tracking, video data link compatible with SADL, and supports RTDI (Rapid Target Detection & Identification) and NTISR (Non-Traditional, Intelligence, Surveillance & Reconnaissance) via SADL.

RWR (Radar Warning Receiver).

MWS (Missile Warning System).

Can carry upto 240 chaff, or 120 flare, or 120 chaff and 60 flare in onboard launchers.

HCMS (Helmet Mounted Cueing System). Day or Night capable.

In addition to the LITENING and Sniper pods, various ECM and specialized EW sensor pods can be carried, along with pods for chaff and flare.

Current Mission List
CAS (Close Air Support)
FAC-A (Forward Air Control-Airborne)
SCAR (Strike Control And Reconnaissance)
AI (Air Interdiction)
AM (Anti-Maritime)
CSAR (Combat Search And Rescue)

Current Weapons Capable List (upto 16,000 lbs in addition to GAU-8A cannon)
30mm GAU-8A gatling cannon
dumb bombs from 500 to 2000 lb including cluster bombs
smart bombs from 500 to 2000 lb, including 500 lb LGB & JTID to 2000 lb LGB & JTID
AGM-65 Maverick
AGM-154 JSOW
Hellfire/Brimstone/2.75" LGR
AIM-9 Sidewinder

In addition the A-10 has demonstrated compatibility with other weapons, such as the AGM-84 Harpoon and AGM-88 HARM (see "Best WW2 plane for Ukraine today?"). . . just to mention two.

Plus other stuff . . . :-\"
Click to expand...
Which is a long way of saying 'That will do nicely'
 
yup.

The A/OA-10C is about as good you can get for air-to-ground work in Ukraine - short of giving them F-35s. You just need to make sure that they also have top cover.

Addition to above:

In my opinion, in practical terms probably even better for air-to-ground work than the F-35. The A/OA-10C can operate from rough airfields and roads, and they are relatively easy to maintain at the Squadron level. I do not know if the US Air National Guard still does it the same as they did 10-20 years ago, but back then they had 'packaged' Squadron level maintenance units that were setup to be easy to deploy along with the A/OA-10C Squadrons.

Now . . . whether this kind of system could be setup in the Ukraine is another question. But I can not see any less of a problem for any other type of front line US aircraft (ie F-15, F-16, F-18, F-35, etc).
 
Last edited:
ThomasP said:
The A/OA-10C is about as good you can get for air-to-ground work in Ukraine - short of giving them F-35s. You just need to make sure that they also have top over.
Click to expand...

The Russian SAMs will also need to be suppressed. Now, I'll grant you that we're not seeing the type of integrated operations from the Russian Army that we expected and saw from the old Soviet Army. However, the SA-15 is a generation ahead of the SAMs the A-10 was designed to operate in and around, and the Russian MANPADS have come on leaps and bounds since 1977.

There's probably no better pre-5th gen jet to take into the Ukrainian fight to do what the A-10 does....but it will still need to have supporting platforms in order to maximize its success.
 
Agreed. But, and it is a significantly large but, for the heavy SAMs (mobile or otherwise) to be effective against low-flying aircraft they will have to be close to the front. And that means that A/OA-10s will be able to lob the AGM-88 HARM at the heavy SAMs with near impunity. The AGM-88 HARM of the early-2000s had an effective range of "over 30 miles" when launched from aircraft flying NOE, and "over 60 miles" when launched from medium altitudes. The newer variants have an even longer range - the latest operational variant has a range of "over 100 miles" from a medium altitude launch.

"The HARM missile can operate in three modes: pre-emptive, missile-as-a-sensor, and self-protect. In the pre-emptive mode the missile is fired before locking on the potential threat. Targeting is provided through pre-flight planning or cued via aircraft's sensors. The missile-as-a-sensor mode allows aircraft to use externally attached HARM missiles as a sensor (using its seeker) to locate radar emissions. Self-protect mode means the missile is fired to destroy threatening radar emissions."

The AGM-88D and later can be used to advantage with the A/OA-10C upgrades.
 
A 10 in the Gulf War.

Around 150 aircraft of the type available.
Around 8000 sorties.
Eight aircraft lost with others damaged.

Losses inflicted;

987 tanks destroyed
2 Helicopters (air-to-air aircraft) kills
501 Armor Personnel Carriers (APC) destroyed
249 Command Posts (CP) destroyed
11 Frog missile launchers destroyed
281 Military structures destroyed
96 Radar installations destroyed
72 Bunkers destroyed
9 SAM sites destroyed
8 Fuel tanks destroyed
2,000 other military vehicles
1,306 trucks
53 SCUD missiles and launchers
10 aircraft on the ground destroyed

As for cost effectiveness, a Maverick infra red missile costs $70,000 or so and can wipe out a T-72. A T-72 costs $1,500,000.
The Russian intelligence unit (is that an oxymoron?) must be aware of this planes capability and must also not want to provoke a situation
where Russian forces face this aircraft plus the F35, let alone what the rest of NATO has. It would surely be lunacy.
 
ThomasP said:
re the A/OA-10

The US has had at least 1x A/OA-10C squadron in Europe since late-April.

All currently operational A/OA-10 (~170) have been upgraded to the C model, with the following upgrades:

LASTE (Low Altitude Safety & Targeting Enhancement). Provides Ground Collision Avoidance/Low Altitude Autopilot system, which includes the Enhanced Attitude Control system (for stability during gun firing and weapons drop). Includes integration of software for aid in navigation to, and location of target, and targeting via GPS coordinates.

EGI (Embedded GPS & Inertial Navigation System). Integrates improved GPS & INS within an on-board nav system.

IDM (Improved Data Modem) allows secure data link for transfer of data from ground units (primarily FO/FIST/FAC teams and SOF units), including data usable by the LASTE and EGI systems.

SADL (Situational Awareness Data Link).

LITENING ATP (Advanced Targeting Pod) capable. Pod incorporates Daylight and dual-wavelength FLIR HDTV, SADL & JTIDS compatible, Laser Designating/Marking/Multiple Spot Tracking.

Sniper ATP (Advanced Targeting Pod) capable. Pod incorporates Daylight and FLIR HDTV, Laser Designating/Marking/Spot Tracking, video data link compatible with SADL, and supports RTDI (Rapid Target Detection & Identification) and NTISR (Non-Traditional, Intelligence, Surveillance & Reconnaissance) via SADL.

RWR (Radar Warning Receiver).

MWS (Missile Warning System).

Can carry upto 240 chaff and 120 flare in onboard launchers.

HMCS (Helmet Mounted Cueing System). Day or Night capable.

In addition to the LITENING and Sniper pods, various ECM and specialized EW sensor pods can be carried, along with pods for chaff and flare.

Current Mission List
CAS (Close Air Support)
FAC-A (Forward Air Control-Airborne)
SCAR (Strike Control And Reconnaissance)
AI (Air Interdiction)
AM (Anti-Maritime)
CSAR (Combat Search And Rescue)

Current Weapons Capable List (upto 16,000 lbs in addition to GAU-8A cannon)
30mm GAU-8A gatling cannon
dumb bombs from 500 to 2000 lb including cluster bombs
smart bombs from 500 to 2000 lb, including 500 lb LGB & JTID to 2000 lb LGB & JTID
AGM-65 Maverick
AGM-154 JSOW
Hellfire/Brimstone/2.75" LGR
AIM-9 Sidewinder

In addition the A-10 has demonstrated compatibility with other weapons, such as the AGM-84 Harpoon and AGM-88 HARM (see "Best WW2 plane for Ukraine today?"). . . just to mention two.

Plus other stuff . . . :-\"
Click to expand...

It'd be nice if there was a way I could award this post both "informative" and "winner" ... because it's both.
 
MiTasol said:
there have been several posts of late in several threads that meet that standard
Click to expand...

A big reason why this has become a mainstay forum I visit. My own goal is simply to provide more info so that I can get in a few posts meeting that high standard myself ... still working on that part.
 
1b.gif
 
Thumpalumpacus said:
A big reason why this has become a mainstay forum I visit. My own goal is simply to provide more info so that I can get in a few posts meeting that high standard myself ... still working on that part.
Click to expand...

You fit in just fine.

As long as we learn it does not matter how much we individually contribute. Your contributions have been very good though.
 
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