Alternate B-24 belly turret?

[meatloaf109]

This must have been a very early B-24. The shots of the belly gun are very interesting!

 

[fubar57]

Must have sucked manning the belly gun. A couple of sq.ft. to see the EA and probably not much of a chance for a shot.

Geo

 

[Feu]

On the late model 5th airforce Libs with the modification I am requesting pics or illustrations of, the hand-held guns rotated 360 degrees on a post housed in a plexiglass "dish". As I said earlier I did see a small photograph of the arrangement I am describing, so I know it existed as such, but no longer have the photo.

 

[Feu]

Here's yet another shot of the type I am seeking interior views of:

 

[T Bolt]

This must have been a very early B-24. The shots of the belly gun are very interesting!

That was the 18th liberator built. If I remember right it started out as a LB-30A intended for the RAF but crashed in route and was re-built as the first C-87 and the Confederate Air Force got a hold of it after the war. Some time shortly before 1981 a Plexiglas nose of a B-24D was grafted on to it replacing the solid nose. It's not shown in those pictures but the cockpit glassing is not like other liberators. Not sure when that was done but I think it was before the CAF got a hold of her. Also the engine installation is different. The early Libs didn't have supercharges so the intakes on the sides of the cowl are not there making them round instead of oval. That tail gin is also a fairly recent addition. It has a solid tail cone when I saw it a wile back. Looks like they did a great job replicating the early tail gun set-up.

 

[Erich]

a little known aspect of the night air war was in late 1944 through 1945 when the US 15th AF flew all black B-24's without belly turrets to transport supplies and agent droppings. what losses the unit the 2641st incurred were from 2cm cannon rounds put upright int the belly from NJG 100's Ju 8G-6 and their Schräge Musk installation the US survivors could not figure ut what happened or how they could be hit on such a sharp angle from underneath their bombers.

 

[Feu]

Got it!

From this website:
Plane Talking - HyperScale's Aircraft Scale Model Discussion Forum: B-24 Ventral Guns Replacing Ball Turret - Help Please
And it only took hours and hours.

 

[Feu]

It would be nice to have a wider angle on it to see what's supporting what but that doesn't seem likely.
It looks as though there is no post like I had thought but its all supported on braces to the scarf ring. Can't be sure though.

 

[T Bolt]

That looks as though that would have been as ineffective at the tunnel gun. It's no wonder there weren't many of them.

 

[Feu]

It was a modification asked for by the 5th Air Force and it appears that a lot if not most of the 90th bomb Group's Libs had it so it seems the added range and or bomb load was deemed more important than the added protection. I don't know if the Japanese resistance was starting to dwindle for sure by then but my guess is that that could also have been a factor.
I don't know how much it would have effected the missions to have had a mixed formation of some B-24s with stripped down tail and belly gun positions and others with power turrets but might that not be a problem too?

 

[Feu]

Here's another pic I found. Though not very clear it's taken from the waist gun position facing forward. There appears to be a single hand-held gun, like the earlier tunnel gun, where the ball would usually be and it seems to be fed simply from a box put overhead.

 

[Feu]

Here's another image I just found that seems to have a single hand-held gun in place of the turret, in the manner of the older tunnel gun, fed merely by a box of ammo off to the side or perhaps from boxes mounted up near the ceiling.

 

[jmps]

Here is a pic of the interior with the tunnel gun.

 

[Capt. Vick]

That's the one I was going to post, if I could remember where I saved it!

 

[Niceoldguy58]

If you can find a copy of "Consolidated Mess, Vol. 1" to look at, I go into some detail about the hand-held twin-fifty caliber belly gun 5AF modification - as well as the various hand-held tail guns used to replace the turret, mostly in the Pacific, but also on L's headed for Europe. The substantially-lightened SAC-7 turret eventually provided an answer for the heavier A6 turrets previously used and was used in both the L's and the M's.

Alan Griffith, author "Consolidated Mess, Volume 1", and currently working on Volumes 2 and 3.