Alternate Me 262 armament?

kool kitty89 · Oct 15, 2008

Ok, what threw me off was that it sounded like you were saying the M2 was coming into the inventory in the early 1950's, but it entered service durring WWII.

I know that the M1 and M2 Hispano were WWII weapons, with the M3 and M24 post war, then the Colt Mk 12 (with the Navy) and don't forget the M39 prior to the M61.

Nice info on the .60, too bad about that ammo though. (and I would assume all refrences to development of US .60 caliber weapons would be with the 15.2 x 114 mm ammunition -originally developed as an AT rifle round)

B-17engineer · Oct 15, 2008

I would say 4 7.92 mm guns in the wings and a 30 mm in the nose...or a glazed nose for light bombing

Soren · Oct 15, 2008

Guns in the wings, why ? Center mounting guns is always the best, providing the best and most stable gun platform and ruling out convergence issues. The wing isn't a good place to place your guns as it warps twists in maneuvers and by the recoil of the guns, plus there's the convergence issue. Furthermore having guns in the wing sticking out of the LE disturbes the airflow over it, making the wing less efficient.

Anyway you can't put guns in the Me-262's wings cause it's got the LE slats.

Keep the guns in the nose where they belong and are most efficient.

Next comes your choice of guns, 4x 7.92mm rifle caliber MG's just won't cut it, while offering great ballistics they just aren't powerful enough for the job. You need HMG's at the least and most perferably cannons.

The ideal armament IMO would be 4x 15mm MG-151's + 2x 30mm Mk103's in the nose, the reason being both have similar ballistics compared to each other and more importantly they are enormously powerful, esp. the Mk103 with which you only need one hit to blow a fighter out of the sky.

And finally, the Me-262 wasn't suited for bombing, it accelerated way too fast in dives, much faster than a piston engined fighter, and thus quickly reached dangerous speeds near the speed of sound. And finally it only carried 2x 259 kg bombs..

I hope you see the sense in that.

B-17engineer · Oct 15, 2008

Soren said:
Guns in the wings, why ? Center mounting guns is always the best, providing the best and most stable gun platform and ruling out convergence issues. The wing isn't a good place to place your guns as it warps twists in maneuvers and by the recoil of the guns, plus there's the convergence issue. Furthermore having guns in the wing sticking out of the LE disturbes the airflow over it, making the wing less efficient.

Anyway you can't put guns in the Me-262's wings cause it's got the LE slats.

Keep the guns in the nose where they belong and are most efficient.

Next comes your choice of guns, 4x 7.92mm rifle caliber MG's just won't cut it, while offering great ballistics they just aren't powerful enough for the job. You need HMG's at the least and most perferably cannons.

The ideal armament IMO would be 4x 15mm MG-151's + 2x 30mm Mk103's in the nose, the reason being both have similar ballistics compared to each other and more importantly they are enormously powerful, esp. the Mk103 with which you only need one hit to blow a fighter out of the sky.

And finally, the Me-262 wasn't suited for bombing, it accelerated way too fast in dives, much faster than a piston engined fighter, and thus quickly reached dangerous speeds near the speed of sound. And finally it only carried 2x 259 kg bombs..

I hope you see the sense in that.

Oh thanks

kool kitty89 · Oct 15, 2008

I think the MK 103 might be a bit heavy though Soren. (the 2x MK 103's and 4x 151/15's would weigh almost double that of 4x MK 108's)

Soren · Oct 15, 2008

Well a single Mk103 in the middle then, with the 4x MG151's placed as the original Mk108 armament above it, that'll do just fine. The 4x MG151's are devastating alone.

kool kitty89 · Oct 16, 2008

Not completely on topic, but I found some interesting drawings of the Me 262: Me262

On the prototype versions, the originally intended armament seems to be 3x cannon, aparently MG 151's. (the same as the armament of the He 280)

It apears the V1 was later modified (in stage III) with the wing root extentions (constant LE sweep) and equipped with this armament.

kool kitty89 · Oct 16, 2008

HoHun said:
Hi Koolkitty,

>Where is it mentioned on Tony's site?

Hm, I can't find it either. I guess I either misremembered, or the information is from Tony but was posted in some forum thread and not on his site. Do you have his books, by the way?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

I guess I skipped your response a while back. (going straight to pg 2), but the only mention I've seen is Tony's quote (from this forum) I mentioned on post #7 of this thread.

And I don't have any of his books, but I've been meaning to get a couple of them for a while. (along with several other books, but besides a couple of the WWII weapon related books, "The Foresight War" really cought my interest)

SoD Stitch · Oct 16, 2008

Soren said:
Guns in the wings, why ? Center mounting guns is always the best, providing the best and most stable gun platform and ruling out convergence issues. The wing isn't a good place to place your guns as it warps twists in maneuvers and by the recoil of the guns, plus there's the convergence issue. Furthermore having guns in the wing sticking out of the LE disturbes the airflow over it, making the wing less efficient.

Anyway you can't put guns in the Me-262's wings cause it's got the LE slats.

Keep the guns in the nose where they belong and are most efficient.

Next comes your choice of guns, 4x 7.92mm rifle caliber MG's just won't cut it, while offering great ballistics they just aren't powerful enough for the job. You need HMG's at the least and most perferably cannons.

The ideal armament IMO would be 4x 15mm MG-151's + 2x 30mm Mk103's in the nose, the reason being both have similar ballistics compared to each other and more importantly they are enormously powerful, esp. the Mk103 with which you only need one hit to blow a fighter out of the sky.

And finally, the Me-262 wasn't suited for bombing, it accelerated way too fast in dives, much faster than a piston engined fighter, and thus quickly reached dangerous speeds near the speed of sound. And finally it only carried 2x 259 kg bombs..

I hope you see the sense in that.

Soren - You probably already knew this, but my (limited) sources indicate the Mk 103 was test-fitted to the A-1a/U1, though it doesn't say how many were fitted (I'm guessing just two due to the weight).

delcyros · Oct 16, 2008

I wouldn´t change anything in it´s armement. Four MK 108 are ideal for dealing with all kinds of aerial targets up to very heavy bombers in quickest times (not much time in high speed passes for ensuring a kill). The Me-262 received EZ-42 computing gunsights which could compensate for the ballistic drop of the MK 108. The only thing which could be enhanced is to put the newer 1945 mod MK 108 into the nose, which were augmented to 850 rpm rate of fire. No modification is necessary.
If You want to engage hardened ground targets either use R4M with AT warhead or install two MK 103 instead.

johnbr · Oct 18, 2008

What about the MK 108 with a longer barrel.I have a book by Edward j Hoffschmidt in it it says that Mauser shipped 4 of the MG213 C to be put in the Me 262 but it is nut now en if this was done.

kool kitty89 · Oct 18, 2008

What do you mean by "long barrel" MK 108? I've never heard of this. (in fact, it wouldn't make sense given the gun's operating properties)

Alternate Me 262 armament?

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