Alternative light and anti-tank guns, 1935-45 (2 Viewers)

Shortround6 said:

French 47mm ATG was overweight, now by how much?

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By at least 200 kg.
See the M.1942 Soviet 45mm ATG, with it's long barrel, was 400 kg lighter. Barrel seems to be very thick-walled (French vs. Soviet).

Shortround6 said:

Perhaps the French could have used better steel in the carriage or perhaps the barrel.
Or used a muzzle brake to cut down on recoil forces allowing for a lighter carriage.

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Muzzle brake - definitely. That will allow for a lighter carriage. Also the lighter barrel.
For my money, I'd try and install the gun on a tank or some other AFV, where the weight of the AT 47mm ordnance will not be a thing.

Shortround6 said:

The 3.7cm Pak 36 is a big lie. It should be called the Pak 26 or Pak 28 or ????
They had licensed production to the Soviets in 1930-31. It was a pretty good gun in 1928-30. In 1936? not so much. Not mass producing a replacement in 1939 was a huge mistake.
And this is why just about everybody (Italians excepted) had a better AT gun than the Germans did in 1939-40.

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Agreed all the way.

Shortround6 said:

We can ask what the Germans could have done to improve the Pak 36 and/or we can ask what could they have made to replace the Pak 36. A light gun that could be moved by men (or one/two horses) and deal with most tanks of 1940-42.

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The better, more powerful gun is a must. Don't muddle the waters with two different guns, but make a gun that can make a difference, especially once the Czech 47 is ... acquired.

As for the 37mm pak and what to do with it - depends on when the better, more powerful gun is available. If it is the historical situation, hot-load the gun within reasonable limits, stick the muzzle brake, adopt the pseudo-APCR and full-on APCR shots for it.
( we have axed the squeeze bore guns together with their tungsten-tipped ammo, ditto for the AT rifle an it's ammo)
If the number of 37mm guns is lower because the better gun is being made more early, don't over-produce the expensive ammo.
In the same time (1939 = best, 1940 = still good, 1941 = a must) have the 600-700m/s 75mm guns installed on the Pz-IVs, Stugs and Pz-IIs-turned-into self-propelled mounts.

tomo pauk said:

E Elan Vital - how well you are acquainted with this Belgian AA gun, that looks suspiciously close to the 'French 75' mounted on the AA carriage? Re-bored to accept the Belgian ammo, for 700 m/s.

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I'm not sure the picture actually shows the gun after the conversion, and I suspect that if this happened it rather meant using the 75mm Mle 1928 gun just like French conversions of older AA gun mounts (the ABS Mle 1932 which was a new mount used said piece without a muzzle brake).

I actually went down a rabbit hole about this, because I remember the Swiss Flab Kan 38 L/49 was a Schneider design (I suspect the S.A.A 800 due to the muzzle velocity of HE). By the looks of it this was a new firing piece which boosted service pressure to 2800-2900 MPa (exactly what I conceptualized), which resulted in an HE MV of 805 m/s and AP MV of 840-860 m/s (with 5.94kg AP weight instead of 6.4kg, which for the same muzzle energy would require 809-828 m/s). This served as the basis for some tank destroyer guns with some trying even higher service pressures. Not sure if the case is the French 75x518R. If I understood it right this means French Schneider had access to yet another class of 75mm guns the French could eventually use for tank/AT use if need be.

Incidentally, I figured out the Schneider S.A.A. n°4 tested by the French did have 750 m/s MV. However the wear was too fast and resulted in high dispersion so it wasn't successful in French testing and the French instead looked at using the Mle 1932 gun on the Schneider platform which had a number of qualities. The 75mm CA Mle 1940 which was to be adopted is normally derived from the Swiss gun, so probably uses the S.A.A. 800 piece unless it reused the standard Mle 1932 piece.

More info about Swiss late-war/postwar AT gun designs as food for thought: Viewer des Bundesarchivs