Aluminium in the aeroplanes?

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Yes, but not primary structure ... at least hopefully.

I would not want to be in a commerciual plane where the engine bearers are magnesium since that is where fire will likely come from. Most commercial planes don't take fire from the airport they fly into and most flame type fires would usually come from the engines or electrical shorts, meaning the structure along the wire bundles and especially the battery area should also not be magnesium. Trouble will happen but there's no point giving it help along the way.

To tell you the truth, I'm not too keen on mixed construction like the 787, either. I'm still not sure about the cumulative effects of ageing and vibration on the metal / carbon fiber interface, and neither is Boeing. I guess we'll see when there aren't any issues or they start coming apart in the air. Hopefully the former.

At least in Military planes, the crew going into indian territory in a combat-rated plane usually has escape options if things go south. Whether or not they fall into friendly hands is another story, but they can usually escape the falling plane. I doubt seriously whether any commercial plane would survive a hoistile encounter with any jet fighter, so it really doesn't matter much. You take your chances on an AWACS or a tanker in unfreindly terrotory, but at least you know that going in and usually have some protection and some warning to leave the area if bogies are inbound.

What I don't want is a commercial plane that experiences a short circuit in the air and the primary structure catches fire and burns through killing everyone aboard. It's too easy to design that OUT of the planes to allow that type of fault to get into service. I mentioned the 787 and they DID have some fires thaht resulted in issues, but none of the planes were crashed due to the event, even the airborne event. That says something good about al least THAT part of the fail safe structure design of the 787.

So perhaps I should have qualified that statement to say primary structure and structure around electrical busses especially on commercial planes. I am still not sure Magnesuim is required on military planes at all, particularly in wheels and primary fuselage and wing / tail structure, but it does get used. I am not in a position to make changes to the procurement specs, so it sill likely continue to be used.

You can still buy cigarettes. That doesn't mean it is smart to smoke.
 
Yes, but not primary structure ... at least hopefully.
Most no - some east block aircraft, yes.

For the most part if you're worried about magnesium components catching fire during an IFE, you already have much bigger problems. I've worked with magnesium and seen it burn - it's not as combustable as you might think.
 
Guys you are all talking about magnesium alloys. Magnesium itself is like sausage meat in strength and will readily react with water and even Nitrogen.

from wiki????
Chemical properties[edit]
Magnesium is a highly flammable metal, but, while it is easy to ignite when powdered or shaved into thin strips, it is difficult to ignite in mass or bulk. Once ignited, it is difficult to extinguish, being able to burn in nitrogen (forming magnesium nitride), carbon dioxide (forming magnesium oxide, and carbon) and water (forming magnesium oxide and hydrogen). This property was used in incendiary weapons used in the firebombing of cities in World War II, the only practical civil defense being to smother a burning flare under dry sand to exclude the atmosphere. On burning in air, magnesium produces a brilliant-white light that includes strong ultraviolet. Thus, magnesium powder (flash powder) was used as a source of illumination in the early days of photography. Later, magnesium ribbon was used in electrically ignited flashbulbs. Magnesium powder is used in the manufacture of fireworks and marine flares where a brilliant white light is required. Flame temperatures of magnesium and magnesium alloys can reach 3,100 °C (3,370 K; 5,610 °F),[7] although flame height above the burning metal is usually less than 300 mm (12 in).[8] Magnesium may be used as an ignition source for thermite, a mixture of aluminium and iron oxide powder that is otherwise difficult to ignite. Those properties are due to magnesium's high specific heat, the fourth-highest specific heat among the metals.
 
Likewise I have seen it burn, too. Kind of depends on the alloy makeup, but it burns very well once it starts.

I have no problem with it in cars. If anything happens you can pull over, park, and watch it burn.

Kind of difficult to do that at 10,000 feet.
 
if you have a problem that big at 10,000ft.... magnesium or not you are in a world of hurt if there isnt an airport with a runway long enough right below you or with in your line of sight. you arent bellying a commercial jet into a farmers field and everyone walking away....
 
Magnesium by itself is not a structural metal, it's when combined with other metals, that it gets it's strength.

Magnesium alloy's flammability is also directly relevant to it's composition, too.

For those who may be overly concerned with aircraft containing magnesium alloys, bear in mind that aircraft since WWI have had magnesium alloys used at some point in their construction. WWII saw a huge increase in it's use, especially in German aircraft.

Even today, Magnesium is found in just about every aspect of the aviation industry, both civil and military. Even Aluminum used in civil aircraft's skin contains a percentage of Magnesium.
 
There's a good possibility most German aircraft had magnesium motor mounts.

Those nice forged motor mounts you see on most Bf109's are Elektron, which is just a trade name for magnesium alloy.

Used on Ju87s, about any piston engined Messerschmitt product, various other aircraft also.

Millions of VW bugs made, every one has magnesium crankcases.

Elektron is somewhere in the 90% magnesium area, with various other metals.
 
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magnesium fires in cars isnt a wide spread problem and there are way more cars in operation every day than there are ac..... some car wheels are magnesium as well.
 
Cars have nothing to do with use of aluminum or magnesium in aircraft. You can't pull over and park an airborne aircraft.

This started out as an old observation aboput ALuminum in airplanes and had morhped into magnesium in cars?

At least stick with aircraft since this is an aviation forum. My objection to magnesium tends towrd it's use in applications where it is exposed to the heat of engine exhaust or heat from short circuits of elecrtical conductors or devices.

Uses in other areas is fine.
 
Cars have nothing to do with use of aluminum or magnesium in aircraft. You can't pull over and park an airborne aircraft.

This started out as an old observation aboput ALuminum in airplanes and had morhped into magnesium in cars?

At least stick with aircraft since this is an aviation forum. My objection to magnesium tends towrd it's use in applications where it is exposed to the heat of engine exhaust or heat from short circuits of elecrtical conductors or devices.

Uses in other areas is fine.
Really now, and your commentary on mythological exploding airplanes has nothing to do with the original post regarding aluminum, either.
 
I never said a word about exploding airplanes, guy, and I stuck with airplanes and tried to avoid sarcasm. You might try that, too. I've had two friends killed when airplanes with magnesium alloys of some sort managed to catch fire in flight, so I don't like it in airplanes. If you do, by all means go fly 'em in good health. No comment from me.

I've also had 4 friends killed flying fiberglass canards from the fertile mind of Burt Rutan, so I don't fly them either. Now if they are made of Aluminum, I have no issue with them. Personal preferences. Naturally, you have yours, too. Run with them and no comments from me.

Cheers.
 
My objection to magnesium tends towrd it's use in applications where it is exposed to the heat of engine exhaust or heat from short circuits of elecrtical conductors or devices.

Uses in other areas is fine.

I think that would be thought out during the design and certification process (at least in civilian aircraft). As far as an electrical short causing a magnesium fire? First that would be a hell of a short considering you're looking at 28V DC on most aircraft electrical systems and if that did happen I'd guess the aircraft already smoked elsewhere.
 
I can't think of any aircraft, modern or vintage, that does not contain some form of magnesium alloy.

So unless you're into hot-air ballooning, you're going to be near it.

As far as aircraft catching fire due to spontaneous (questionable?) circumstances, I haven't heard of such an incident. There was a civil aircraft, Swissair, if I remember right, that had a crash due to what was thought to have been a magnesium fire but was later determined to have been a deliberate act.

Bottom line, you will not find any aircraft that does not contain magnesium unless it is made of 100% silk and bamboo...
 

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