Attack aircraft

[vinnye]

Hurricane IID ?
Caused quite a lot od damage in the Desert.
Carried a variety of armament and made good use of an airframe that was no longer competative as a fighter.

 

[jim]

I would choose Me 410 because combines all the mentioned mission requirements
1) Could dive bomb ( not 90 degress of course)
2) Had internal bomb bay = high penetration speed
3) Powerful nose armament for strafing
4) Decent defensive armament, decent armor
5) Two engines safety
6) Very good performance and manouverability for a twin engined aircraft and good range
7) Ability to accept a great collection of weapons
8 ) Acceptable handling
9) All metal construction
10) Development potential
i cannot find a more full package for the attack role
Especially a version with BMW 801s 1,65 ata (2000ps ), as fitted to ground attack Fw190s would be formidable

 

[tomo pauk]

For LW ground pounders the BMW 801 seems like a natural choice. The 1,58/1,65 ata manifold pressure was being used also in fighter 190s.
The Me-410 with powerful nose armament would mean bomb bay is full, so no bombs there?

 

[jim]

For LW ground pounders the BMW 801 seems like a natural choice. The 1,58/1,65 ata manifold pressure was being used also in fighter 190s.
The Me-410 with powerful nose armament would mean bomb bay is full, so no bombs there?

the B1 variant had 2x20mm 2x13mm standart at its nose . That s pretty good strafing armament to go along the bomb load .
what i dont know is if would be possible to use the defensive Mg 131 to strafe the masses of soviet troops
Besides B1 could mount 4x50kgr in exterior racks. And a dedicated CAS/BAI version could add more exterior bomb racks. With the available power a big load was possible

 

[Grampa]

I whouldent go for the Me 410 or other similare plane who are in same size or are bigger. In the late war German whondered what is that prevent most for the pilots for doing an successfull attack on the heavy defended enemy bomber and targets on the ground, so they compared all the combat report on every warplane they been used in interceping, low level attack and dive-bombning and that led to an surprisingly resault for the german analysts. they had expected that it is the lack of firepower or bombload that gives most negativ resault for a attack on the target. Instead It whas the big size, especially the frontal area on the plane that degenerate most a succesfull attack. Bigger front target are easier to hit than slower. The Me 410 may be little fast and have big firepover and bombload, but you can see that is a big plane whit a big frontal area. So if I whold chose I whould then go for the Hs 132 if it whas available, It's fast whitch give a little to short time for the defender to shoot at it, and the small frontal area it have gives a small chance for the defenders to hit it.

 

[davebender]

Unlike USA, Germany cannot afford to wait until the war is half or two thirds over before fielding effective aircraft. And I don't see any way of getting a reliable BMW801 engine into service during 1939.

Twin engine CAS aircraft powered by BMW132 radial is possible during 1939 or 1940.

 

[nuuumannn]

Why is it that whenever anyone mentions a German aircraft someone always comes along and starts saying that; "if they did this or this or this, then that might have happened"? Let's re-examine the thread purpose as Bob44 intended it.

I am looking for any type of aircraft that was used most successfully at low level bombing, dive bombing, straffing a target. Using bombs, cannons, guns, rockets and such.

German aircraft that proved their worth as GA types include the Bf 110, Ju 87 and of course the Fw 190F, all doing an excellent job of it. Other types that were good at it include the Beaufighter, P-47, Mosquito, Typhoon, F4U, IL-2, Pe-2, B-25, A-20 etc. I also agree that twins offer advantages over single-engine types, although when some twins lost power in one of their engines, all they did was take the crew safely to the crash site on the only working one.

 

[wiking85]

Unlike USA, Germany cannot afford to wait until the war is half or two thirds over before fielding effective aircraft. And I don't see any way of getting a reliable BMW801 engine into service during 1939.

Twin engine CAS aircraft powered by BMW132 radial is possible during 1939 or 1940.

What about the BMW 139 instead of the BMW 801? Apparently the problems with the 139 was fixable:
BMW 801 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The main concern was providing cooling air over the cylinder heads, which generally required a very large opening at the front of the aircraft. Tank's solution for the BMW 139 was to use an engine-driven fan behind an oversized prop-spinner, blowing air past the engine cylinders, with some of it being drawn through S-shaped ducts over a radiator for oil cooling. However this system proved almost impossible to operate properly with the BMW 139; early prototypes of the Fw 190 demonstrated terrible cooling problems. Although the problems appeared to be fixable, since the engine was already fairly dated in terms of design, in 1938 BMW proposed an entirely new engine designed specifically for fan-cooling that could be brought to production quickly.

 

[wiking85]

Unlike USA, Germany cannot afford to wait until the war is half or two thirds over before fielding effective aircraft. And I don't see any way of getting a reliable BMW801 engine into service during 1939.

Twin engine CAS aircraft powered by BMW132 radial is possible during 1939 or 1940.

What about the BMW 139 instead of the BMW 801? Apparently the problems with the 139 was fixable:
BMW 801 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The main concern was providing cooling air over the cylinder heads, which generally required a very large opening at the front of the aircraft. Tank's solution for the BMW 139 was to use an engine-driven fan behind an oversized prop-spinner, blowing air past the engine cylinders, with some of it being drawn through S-shaped ducts over a radiator for oil cooling. However this system proved almost impossible to operate properly with the BMW 139; early prototypes of the Fw 190 demonstrated terrible cooling problems. Although the problems appeared to be fixable, since the engine was already fairly dated in terms of design, in 1938 BMW proposed an entirely new engine designed specifically for fan-cooling that could be brought to production quickly.

 

[davebender]

BMW801 prototype first ran during April 1939. The engine required another 3 years of development before it was reliable and even then it required C3 fuel to produce an adequate amount of power.

BMW139 prototype may be fixable but development is likely to take just as long.

 

[stug3]

A-36 Apache

 

[mike siggins]

id go with the corsair for the allies and fw190 for the germans even ruddel flew one ocasionaly

 

[vinnye]

I would go for the Henschel HS129 if I were wanting a ground attack aircraft for the LW. Twin engined, armour tub and good firepower.
No doubt the FW 190 could do this role - but in my opinion it would be better used against your oponents ground attack aircraft or bombers.

 

[gjs238]

Which where the best, most successful attack aircraft? Such as the P47, A20, Mossie, Typhoon ect. Would you rather have single or twin engines?

What did the US develop and field post-war?
- Douglas A-1 Skyraider
- Martin AM Mauler
If the "best, most successful attack aircraft" were twin-engined jobs, I would ASSume that's what would have been developed, but since single-engine jobs were developed it may be safe to ASSume those were the most effective.

 

[tomo pauk]

Being carrier-borne, the single engine plane was a mandatory thing?
Plus, not many engines from 2000-2500 HP were available for the combatants of ww2, so 2 x 1500 (give or take) was some healthy middle ground. We can also note that USAF quickly discarded A-24, A-25 and similar planes from inventory, that should make a hint. Other combatants also quickly found out that an attack plane ith single ~1500 HP engine was a cold meat on the table for any competent fighter AAA force.

 

[Shortround6]

As Tomo has noted the Navy used single engine attack planes. The Air Force seemed to be quite happy with the A-26 for quite a number of years. Granted the Air Force did by SkyRaiders.

 

[VBF-13]

I would choose Me 410 because combines all the mentioned mission requirements
1) Could dive bomb ( not 90 degress of course)
2) Had internal bomb bay = high penetration speed
3) Powerful nose armament for strafing
4) Decent defensive armament, decent armor
5) Two engines safety
6) Very good performance and manouverability for a twin engined aircraft and good range
7) Ability to accept a great collection of weapons
8 ) Acceptable handling
9) All metal construction
10) Development potential
i cannot find a more full package for the attack role
Especially a version with BMW 801s 1,65 ata (2000ps ), as fitted to ground attack Fw190s would be formidable

A few others would fit into that category, I'm sure. Throw out your #5 and the F6F rates as a very formidable bombing-fighting threat, as well as sturdy and easily-maintenanced. There are others, too. You ask me, we're basically talking style, here, or preferences. On any given day, in top trim, right out of the factory, I can be sold on virtually any of these aircraft referenced.

 

[stug3]

A bomb explodes off the port bow of a Japanese destroyer during the Bismarck Sea Battle.

A dramatic aerial view of a Japanese destroyer as an American plane sweeps over the vessel.

A Japanese merchant ship stopped and on fire after being attacked by American aircraft.

A Japanese merchant ship under attack. The deck cargo of landing craft can be clearly seen.

From the wartime records of the US Fifth Air Force:
Both tactically and strategically, this was an outstanding operation. Besides the ships sunk, from 59 to 83 planes had been shot down and at least 9 others damaged. The Army Air Forces lost 1 B-17 and 3 P-38′s in combat, and a B-25 and a Beaufighter through other causes. Total Army Air Forces personnel losses came to 13 while the Japanese lost approximately 12,700 officers and men. Entirely unassisted, the Fifth Air Force, besides disposing of large numbers of airmen and sailors, wiped out an entire division of troops.

Thus the Fifth Air Force, operating in conjunction with our amphibious, naval and land forces in and around the Solomons and New Guinea, had seized the initiative in the Southwest Pacific. For the first time in that theater we were able to strike at times and places of our own choosing.



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVLV67xILI4

 

[Poor Old Spike]

Give me a Mosquito..
Even though it was relatively small, it's raw brutal power enabled it to carry a 4000lb bomb load like the 'cookie' below.
It could quickly deliver its load to a target, and then get out quicker, unlike larger lumbering bombers.
Maybe the Allies should have used more aircraft like it for pinpoint precision bombing against factories etc rather than relying on less-precise wholesale carpet bombing-

Mosquitos clobber the Gestapo building in Oslo

"It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again"— Hermann Göring, 1943

Modern video from cockpit, the powerful engine sound is like music-

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfQQWOsoB8

 

[vinnye]

The Mossie was indeed a wooden wonder.
I also have a bit of a soft spot for the Beaufighter - I would not want to be in a ship that was in its sights or in a tank for that matter!