B-25J 43-27900 486th BS 340th BG tail code 6V "bottoms Up II

You Da Man Paul!!!!!

Wurger said:

Am I wrong, the plane had worn the British markings?

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The fin flashes had to be positioned between the 2 hinges, overlapping the serial number and on both sides of the tails. Check the photos below and you'll see any possible combinations between fin flashes and serials incl. deleted of the original serial (in yellow) and new serial in black, applied above the fin flash (bottom photo).

Initially the US insignia was white star in a blue disk in 4 or 6 positions. Later on the blue disks received yellow surroundings.

Than white bars have been added:

At the end the bars and the disks received the standard blue (for a short time red) surrounding, overpainting the yellow one. The chaos was complete: stars with bars in 6 positions, fin flashes nobody needed anymore etc. can be seen until October-November 1943, when the Allied Force were in Italy for months:

Great info there Yves

The above photos are a mix from the www I put together in a few minutes. I have a large collection of MTO "Mitchells" with all possible (some of them wrong) insignia used during different periods. Most of them don't follow the standard information we get from books and written sources neither do they comply with orders issued by the authorities. Yellow, red, blue borders, overpainted, added wrongly, than deleted etc. is how it was in the reality. For sure it was not the case that in the night of 14-15 August 1943 all men available have been engaged in overpainting the red borders of the insignia with blue.
340-th BG. is probably one of the best examples for these discrepancies.
I'll try to upload some of the most eye catching samples and put them here in the next days.

CATCH 22 said:

The above photos are a mix from the www I put together in a few minutes. I have a large collection of MTO "Mitchells" with all possible (some of them wrong) insignia used during different periods. Most of them don't follow the standard information we get from books and written sources neither do they comply with orders issued by the authorities. Yellow, red, blue borders, overpainted, added wrongly, than deleted etc. is how it was in the reality. For sure it was not the case that in the night of 14-15 August 1943 all men available have been engaged in overpainting the red borders of the insignia with blue.
340-th BG. is probably one of the best examples for these discrepancies.
I'll try to upload some of the most eye catching samples and put them here in the next days.

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Very cool, yeah as you can see I have been collecting pictures from the web as well trying to identify some of the many modifications that where done and finding data to match it up. If you feel like it in the camouflage and markings area start a thread to discuss some of these.

Again many thanks
All the best
Paul

To make sense of the markings of MTO B-25s, it helps to know who first used the aircraft. The 12th and 340th bomb groups were first assigned to the Ninth AF in the Middle East. Operating under British control (at least nominally) the Mitchells added national insignia above the right wing and below the left, with RAF fin flashes painted on the tails. At Torch, in the Western Desert, the 310th and 321st bomb groups went to war with only two national insignia on the wings, no RAF fin flashes, and thin yellow surrounds to the fuselage and underwing insignia. (Some aircraft added a second insignia beneath the left wing, probably because the invasion orders called for the yellow ring around "both" underwing insignia. Also, some aircraft added the rings to any upperwing insignia.)

As the Allied armies and two US air forces closed on German forces in North Africa in mid-1943, many aircraft were traded between units, and all B-25s were eventually merged under the Twelfth Air Force. In May the US announced that a new US insignia would add a thicker yellow ring to all existing national insignia. At almost the same time the AAF in Washington introduced the barred insignia with red border. Field units wee obviously confused - some added the yellow rings, then placed the white bars and red borders over them; others added the white bars and placed yellow borders around the entire marking; at least three aircraft added yellow bars with red borders. In September 1943 the red border was ordered replaced with an Insignia Blue border, but the confusion still took time to sort out.

With most 1943 MTO Mitchell photos, one can almost trace the history of the individual aircraft just from the markings revisions. It will take a lot of 'splanin' to get the markings right, but it will make for some interesting models...

Cheers,



Dana

Same Sqn as my 6Y, Yankee Doodle Dandy??????

Ruthie was a B-25J that arrived in Corsica in NMF. The color used is not clear as the unit recently arrived, after losing their D models to Vesuvius. Could be RAF, French or even Italian Dark Green. As you can see the aircraft was masked, and the underside may have been unpainted, although some allege NG. More likely dulled aluminum.

http://warwingsart
489th Squadron History
A History of the 340th Bombardment Group

Donivanp said:

B-25J 43-27900 486th BS 340th BG tail code 6V "bottoms Up II"
and or
B-25J 43-27653 489th BS 340th BG tail code 9C "Ruthie"

I have Kits World War Bird set KW148034 and would like more photographic imagery on these aircraft. This is all I could find in photos and I don't trust the research department at most decal firms.

View attachment 537601View attachment 537602

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That's crazy, that's my grandfather on the bottom right of the bottoms up 2, Staff Srgt. Joseph W. Martinez