fubar57
General
??????? B-29 service ceiling 31,000 ish
Me 262 service ceiling 37,000 ish
Why do you make things up
Me 262 service ceiling 37,000 ish
Why do you make things up
B-29 vs Me264
- Thread starter KraziKanuK
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Vahe Demirjian
Banned
The B-29 never saw action over Europe in WW2 and only saw combat over Japan. If the B-29 had conducted air raids over Germany, it would faced fierce resistance from Me 262s and Me 163s.
fubar57
General
Duh. The title of the thread is B-29 vs Me 262. You said the Me 262 couldn't reach the B-29 altitude
Vahe Demirjian
Banned
I never mentioned Me 262 in my posts on this thread, only mentioned Me 264. We all know that the Me 262 had the altitude to take out the B-29, but the Me 264 Amerika Bomber could only fly at an altitude of 26,000 feet, meaning it was vulnerable to interception by American fighter planes, whether piston-powered or jet-powered.
If the LW could have reached the point of operational Me-264s, and bombed NYC, the US would have quickly found a remedy. A string of radar equipped picket ships for early warning, a couple of squadrons of P-47Js / P-51Hs / suitable alternates configured for high altitude interception would probably do the trick. Launch a couple of flights for inbound intercept and a couple for outbound in the event the inbound guys miss. Plane(s) never return.
On the Europe side figure out where they are being built / launching from and kill them on the ground. Planes don't get airborne.
Bottom line not a difficult exercise to overcome IMO.
Cheers,
Biff
On the Europe side figure out where they are being built / launching from and kill them on the ground. Planes don't get airborne.
Bottom line not a difficult exercise to overcome IMO.
Cheers,
Biff
Any raid would have to come from France and the bay of Biscay was already picketed by anti Submarine aircraft. I cant see any way such a mission would be anything other than a one way propaganda exercise.
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,961
- Mar 26, 2007
On what fuel and do not forget our little friends. Me163 is nothing more then a rocket powered arrow. Very easy to evade. B-29 was not needed. Germany 1945 was nothing compared to the Korea era with good soviet jets, pilots, and fuel.
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With the potential that the slow bomber fleet (cruising speed will not be very fast) being tracked across the Atlantic it's dicey for sure. Long range interceptors from GB, Iceland, Greenland, and Canada followed by point defense in the US. Losses will be significant as even minor damage is a potentially a big deal that far from home.
a Doolittle level raid is potentially feasible. But is it worth the effort?
a Doolittle level raid is potentially feasible. But is it worth the effort?
The Doolittle raid had the advantage of surprise. There is no way an airfield with huge German bombers could be brought in to operation in France without being discovered or reported, it would have as much chance of survival as a submarine pen.
fubar57
General
Not the first time I've been an idiot, carry on
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Would have, should have, could have. If the queen had balls she'd be the king!
The -163 was a joke - look at it's combat record.
If you want to speculate, if the war "would have" went on, the plan was to bring the B-32 to Europe to replace the B-17 and B-24. One would also have to speculate that all the operational issues with the 262"would have" been mitigated to the point that it "would have" been effective against the B-29 or any other heavy to be operated in late 1945.
BUT - let's speculate that a decision was made to bring the B-29 to Europe late 1945/ early 1946. Then the axis "would have" had to contend with the "B-29D" which eventually became the B-50; faster, greater range, heavier bomb load.
Let's not forget our British friends bringing the AVRO Lincoln to play as well!!!
Now let's speculate what allied fighters "would have" shown up, shall we?
swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,022
- Jun 25, 2013
The direct military effects of the Doolittle Raid were negligible; a few dozen (non-nuclear) bombs dropped in the general vicinity of Tokyo couldn't have that. The Japanese military and populace lost any sense of the invulnerability of Japan, proper, and some of the Japanese (or at least the portion of the Japanese populace in the know) may have even started to worry that US and its allies would do to the Japanese people what the Japanese Army had been doing in China.
The direct military results of a German air raid on New York (or Boston) would have the same general level of insignificance, but the net result would be a) a lot of Americans really angry at the Germans, in the same way as the country was angry for Pearl Harbor and b) a transfer of effort from the Pacific to the Atlantic. Unless Germany can mount raids of a hundred or more aircraft every day -- or at least every week -- the net effect would be negligible.
The direct military results of a German air raid on New York (or Boston) would have the same general level of insignificance, but the net result would be a) a lot of Americans really angry at the Germans, in the same way as the country was angry for Pearl Harbor and b) a transfer of effort from the Pacific to the Atlantic. Unless Germany can mount raids of a hundred or more aircraft every day -- or at least every week -- the net effect would be negligible.
I agree, and I cant see how any raid would succeed in surprise. How would a raider escape a P-38 or Mosquito NF type aircraft in a chase across the Atlantic?
cherry blossom
Senior Airman
- 513
- Apr 23, 2007
I think that the Me 264 was underpowered. However, that could have been solved by fitting it with four Jumo 222 engines.
Clearly Vahe, what is really needed here is the Horten Ho XVIII. A recent internet poll has proven it's immunity to allied fighters. Ditch the Me 264...
German multiengine jet bomber best immune to Allied interception
wuzak
Captain
Don't think jet fighters were necessary, nor that the P-59 was up to the task.
A P-51B had longer range, higher top speed and faster climb to 30,000ft.
And was available in numbers.
A Me 264 raid on the US would have suffered from a lack of fuel. Jet aircraft, such as the Me 262, could use less refined fuels, but the piston engines required high octane fuels. Such was the problem that a proposal was to use steam turbines running on a 65/35 mix of pulverised coal and petrol, reverting to 100% petrol when the supply was sufficient.
A raid on the US would have been with a small bomb load - maybe as little as 250kg per aircraft. Not worth the effort in terms of manpower and resources.
The problem for Me 264 production was Allied bombing of production facilities, as well as petrol refineries and the transportation of materials.
wuzak
Captain
It was originally designed for four 1,750hp DB 603s, but ended up with Jumo 211s of 1,250hp and then BMW 801s.
Jumo 222s in production and reliable would have done wonders, but I don't think there was such a thing.
Another possibility was the use of DB 610 couple engines. These got a bad rap in the He 177, but seemed to be a bit better in other types. Also a quick way to get 3,000hp per prop.
Shortround6
Major General
To me the fact that the Germans are supposed to have built around 280 Jumo 222 engines and yet the number of airframes that flew with them can be counted on one hand (with a finger or two left over?) says volumes about the reliability of the Jumo 222 engine, especially given the German proclivity of of building small batches of all sorts of weaponry to use up bits and pieces.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
That late in the war?Now let's speculate what allied fighters "would have" shown up, shall we?
Can we say P-51H, anyone?
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