B17 manufacture

[Renani]

In writing a biography about my grandfather as a bombardier in WWII I'm looking for information on where and when his B17s was made. The information I have comes from these links

42-29858 / Murder Incorporated aka Censored | B-17 Bomber Flying Fortress – The Queen Of The Skies

B-17 #42-29858 / Murder Incorporated aka Censored: Delivered Denver 28/2/43; Smoky Hill 22/3/43; Assigned 508BS/351BG [YB-G] Polebrook 17/5/43 MURDER INCORPORATED 31m; crashed on take off after losing engine at Oundle, near Barnwell, UK 21 February 1944, with Lt – Evans, crew ? ; 2 SAD Lt...

b17flyingfortress.de

aristocrap | Search Results | B-17 Bomber Flying Fortress – The Queen Of The Skies

b17flyingfortress.de

There is also a third plane but my grandfather remembers it as unnamed when he flew the mission in it on November 16, 1943 from RAF Polebrook to bomb a heavy water facility in Knaben, Norway. I'm still trying to find out if that plane actually had a name and he just didn't remember it or if it was, in fact, unnamed.

The links say the 2 planes I do have names for were delivered to Denver on February 28, 1943 (Murder Inc) and Long Beach on October 9, 1943 (Aristocrap) but my research indicates most B17s were actually manufactured at the Boeing plant in Seattle. There is a production block number associated with Murder Inc but I'm not sure what that means. Aristocrap does not have a block number associated with it.

Specifically I'd like to know what plant the planes were manufactured at, the date they rolled off the assembly line at that plant and, if possible when they were delivered to RAF Polebook. I have a general idea when Murder Inc was delivered based on letters from my grandfather asking about the origins of the name but no idea about Aristocrap.
Thank you

 

[Snautzer01]

There are master files on the life of the Fortress.
There are also websites like Archive | American Air Museum that uses those files and combines them with i.g. people. Or fold3.com wich can shine light.
I know for fact that not all Forts had a name but after seeing many 1000 of pictures i think most had. Certainly eto ones.

 

[Snautzer01]

Aristocrap does not have a block number associated with it.

It has. Only one will have to find.

42-37817

 

[Snautzer01]

Production-block:
B-17G-15-DL: 42-37804 to 42-37893

Manufacturer:
Douglas

Delivered Long Beach 10/9/43; Scott 28/9/43; Assigned 510BS/351BG [TU-A] Polebrook 24/10/43; {2m} Missing in Action Bremen 26/11/43 with Orville Castle, Co-pilot: Leon Anderson, Radio Operator: Mike Beckett (3 Killed in Action), Navigator: Marion Cessna, Bombardier: Ken Williams, Flight engineer/top turret gunner: Clinton Logan, Ball turret gunner: Francis Bousquet, Waist gunner: Lawton Wilkes {RIP 15/9/44}, Waist gunner: Bob Cheek,Tail gunner: George Bond (7 Prisoner of War); flak & enemy aircraft, crashed Eggese, a mile S of Gross Mackenstedt, SW of Bremen. Missing Air Crew Report 1576. ARISTOCRAP.

Source: Dave Osborne, B-17 Fortress Master Log*

42-37817 / Aristocrap | B-17 Bomber Flying Fortress – The Queen Of The Skies

B-17 #42-37817 / Aristocrap: Delivered Long Beach 10/9/43; Scott 28/9/43; Assigned 510BS/351BG [TU-A] Polebrook 24/10/43; {2m} Missing in Action Bremen 26/11/43 with Orville Castle, Co-pilot: Leon Anderson, Radio Operator: Mike Beckett (3 Killed in Action), Navigator: Marion Cessna, Bombardier...

b17flyingfortress.de

 

[Maty12]

Other people here know more about the B-17 than me but one tidbit I can tell you is that those two letters at the end of the production block tell you where they were built. BO = BOeing (Seattle). DL = Douglas, Long beach.

Joe Baugher's website may have more info that is of use to you, here's his page on the B-17F, on the B-17G, and the index for all his B-17 info.

Regarding Murder Inc being delivered to Denver, it's possible that it was sent to a modification center before being accepted by the USAAF. These were a way of speeding up production, with changes sometimes depending on what theater the aircraft was being sent to (at least with B-24s and B-26s). I'm not knowledgeable on 17s though, so take that with a grain of salt.

Edit: Jeremy K. has a great search engine using Baugher's USAAF serial number database, if you need a faster way to find a plane's production block and fate based on the serial number. It's not infallible, but it's pretty good. You can find that here.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

The best reference is probably the web site and associated book. 351BG frames
The Norway mission 16 Nov. 1943 Target: Molybdenum Processing Plant, Knaben, Norway

B-17 production
Boeing Seattle (BO)
Y1B-17 13
Y1B-17A 1
B-17B 39
B-17C 38
B-17D 42
B-17E 512
B-17F 2,300
B-17G 4,035
Douglas Long Beach (DL)
B-17F 605
B-17G 2,395
Lockheed Vega Burbank (VE)
B-17F 500
B-17G 2,250

USAAF delivery logs

42-29858 accepted by USAAF from Boeing on 25 February 1943 as a B-17F-75-BO, arrived Cheyenne modification center 27 February, work completed 9 March, delivered 11 March 1943.
42-37817 accepted by USAAF from Douglas on 9 September 1943 as a B-17G-15-DL, to Long Beach modification center.

 

[Vincenzo]

Was common for the bomber or generally for us warplanes go to modification center before of actually delivered to air force?

 

[Reluctant Poster]

Was common for the bomber or generally for us warplanes go to modification center before of actually delivered to air force?

Yes. In fact virtually all bombers went through them. B-24s in particular needed extensive modifications not just for the variety of roles they filled but to make them fit for combat in general. The following is From Buying Aircraft (attached)

Note that 25 to 50 percent of the labor was spent in modification centers using hand production methods undermining the benefits of mass production..

 

[Vincenzo]

thanks
so the acceptances monthly figures are not that i though

p.s. we are unlucky the tables in the first pdf are not all readable

 

[EwenS]

Was common for the bomber or generally for us warplanes go to modification center before of actually delivered to air force?

There were a number of Modification Centers for the B-24.

USAAF B-24s also got armament changes to suit the theatres that they going to be sent to. So those destined for the 5th AF in the Pacific for example lost the ball turret in the belly and gained a hand held twin 0.5" mount and often the tail turrets were replaced with hand held twin mounts as well. And several hundred B-24D aircraft destined for the Pacific in 1943 received a nose turret. Some 60-70 B-24D destined for USAAF ASW squadrons in 1943 had the tail turret replaced with a hand held mount and the turret fitted to the nose instead.

As for the B-17, the one I'm aware of was the Cheyenne Modification Center. It was the place responsible for the modified tail mount on later B-17 (the Cheyenne tail turret)

 

[Reluctant Poster]

There were a number of Modification Centers for the B-24.

USAAF B-24s also got armament changes to suit the theatres that they going to be sent to. So those destined for the 5th AF in the Pacific for example lost the ball turret in the belly and gained a hand held twin 0.5" mount and often the tail turrets were replaced with hand held twin mounts as well. And several hundred B-24D aircraft destined for the Pacific in 1943 received a nose turret. Some 60-70 B-24D destined for USAAF ASW squadrons in 1943 had the tail turret replaced with a hand held mount and the turret fitted to the nose instead.

As for the B-17, the one I'm aware of was the Cheyenne Modification Center. It was the place responsible for the modified tail mount on later B-17 (the Cheyenne tail turret)

The Cheyenne modification center is the subject of one of the articles I posted

 

[fubar57]

No known Pic.....

​

Having said that, the book was published in 1996 and I have found photos of two aircraft when the book said no