Beaufighter vs. Axis fighters

[tomo pauk]

Gents, how good/bad fared the Beau against the contemporary fighters he oposed?

 

[Clay_Allison]

I believe it was successful as a nightfighter.

 

[thewritingwriter89]

The Beaufighter was pretty heavy, but It was fast (320 mph @ 10,000 ft) enough to catch most German bombers, and in the "maritime patrol suppression" role, it might have done quite well. I do know of several instances in which Beaufighters downed Messerschmitt's and 190s. These were perhaps flukes, where pilot experience was lopsided in favor of the Allied pilot, but happened nonetheless. I don't have the exact engagement's and their circumstances handy (I'm at work), but i will look them up when I get home. If I were a Beau pilot, I would stick to what the aircraft did best; annihilating anything on the ground.

 

[Clay_Allison]

The Beaufighter was pretty heavy, but It was fast (320 mph @ 10,000 ft) enough to catch most German bombers, and in the "maritime patrol suppression" role, it might have done quite well. I do know of several instances in which Beaufighters downed Messerschmitt's and 190s. These were perhaps flukes, where pilot experience was lopsided in favor of the Allied pilot, but happened nonetheless. I don't have the exact engagement's and their circumstances handy (I'm at work), but i will look them up when I get home. If I were a Beau pilot, I would stick to what the aircraft did best; annihilating anything on the ground.

If the Bo had the initiative and altitude advantage on a 109 or 190, that would be a scary situation for any German.

I'm sure considering its weight it was very fast in a dive and it had guns galore.

 

[thewritingwriter89]

If the Bo had the initiative and altitude advantage on a 109 or 190, that would be a scary situation for any German.

Maybe. However, I think that any German fighter pilot who found himself jumped by an angry Beaufighter with a heigth advantage would be the butt-end of quite a few jokes in the mess hall. I suppose it could always happen in the middle of a fight. That's kind of an interesting scenario now that I think about it.

 

[thewritingwriter89]

O.K. Just got home and broke open a few books and confirmed my initial assumptions. In May of 1941, No. 252 Squadron (a Beaufighter unit) was tasked exclusively with the destruction of Fw 200s, one of the best maritime patrol aircraft of the war (this was in the Atlantic). They did very well and helped guard convoys coming from the United States.

Tomo Pauk, to answer your question about its effectivness when it came to fighters...

This is an excerpt from the book The RAF In Action by Robert Jackson. (None of the following was written by myself).

We continued on course for about five minutes when we sighterd one Me110 flying east and jinking. We turned and followd him toward the coast, closing in on the aircraft until we were at 300 yards in range, 20 degrees starboard astern and a little below. Fire was opened with a two second burst from all guns and strikes were seen all over the enemy aircraft. Somke came from the port engine and the Me 110 dived to port. We gave him another burst from 250 yards and he caught fire and dived into the sea. Immediately afterwards, we saw a second Me 110 (which had been chasing us) a little above and turning gently to starboard on an easterly course. We gave a one-second burst of cannon and machine-gun at 50 yards in a gentle turn. The enemy aircraft appeared to blow up and we had to pull up and turn port to avoid ramming it. At that point, we saw one man bale out and his parachute open, and the enemy aircraft dived vertically to the sea in flames.

-Wing Commander J.R.D. Braham of No. 141 squadron in night action off Ameland on 17/18/1943

(End of excerpt from The RAF In Action)


If you count the 1943 iterations of the Bf-110 as fighters, then yes; it did shoot down other fighters. The problem with twin-engine fighters is that they can't really do anything that a single-engine can't do equally well, if not better. The Bf-110 was designed as a heavy fighter, but found itself relegated to night duty, where manuverability was not as important as a stable and powerful platform, capable of hauling the heavy radar of the day aloft.

The Beaufighter came out of the Bristol Beaufort, a purpose built torpedo bomber. While it too was designed as a heavy fighter bomber, the Beaufighter was best used as a fighter in the saftey of night. It was used extensively as a defence fighter, intercepting German bombers and it was very successful. It experienced similar success in the Pacific theater performing the same type of duty.

I still can't find the particular engagement where the Beau shot down the 109s and 190s, but I'll find it eventually.

TWW89

 

[Clay_Allison]

Maybe. However, I think that any German fighter pilot who found himself jumped by an angry Beaufighter with a heigth advantage would be the butt-end of quite a few jokes in the mess hall. I suppose it could always happen in the middle of a fight. That's kind of an interesting scenario now that I think about it.

Getting "bounced" from above can happen to anybody, and the bigger plane with the bigger gun battery is holding all the cards if it is diving on you.

 

[Glider]

There were a number of actions involving Beaufighters in the fighter role and fighter JU88's over the Bay of Biscay in which the Beaufighters had the edge. However the Germans brought FW190's in to help and as you would expect the FW had a significant advantage. The only chance the Beau had was if they were not seen

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

Beaufighter's did successfully engage A6M's several times. They also had many bloody engagements with BF 110s and Ju 88s over the Med, both inflicting and taking many losses.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Getting "bounced" from above can happen to anybody, and the bigger plane with the bigger gun battery is holding all the cards if it is diving on you.

Surely failing to maintain situational awareness when some large aircraft is approaching counts for something?

If I'm flying my Spitfire whilst reading my pilot's notes and get bounced by a Blohm & Voss BV 238, even though its forward battery of twelve mgs and twin 20 mm far outweighs mine, I may still take some rubbing if I survive the day.

"You missed THIS in your mirror?"

 

[Vincenzo]

From old Nikademus post
Beaufighter had 1 loss and 0 kill versus CR 42 over Malta
had 1 loss for 2 CR 42 in North Africa (victory in late time probably CR 42 were not more from fighter unit)
had 1 loss for 3 Bf 110 in North Africa
had 1 loss for 1 Bf 110 in Tunisia
had 2 loss for 1 Bf 110 in Malta

this came from data for the CR 42 and the Bf 110 so it's probable there are others fighter vs Beaufighter

 

[EwenS]

For all Beaufighter fans out at the end of the month from Air Britain.

Bristol Beaufighter - Now Sold Out!

www.air-britain.co.uk

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

From old Nikademus post
Beaufighter had 1 loss and 0 kill versus CR 42 over Malta
had 1 loss for 2 CR 42 in North Africa (victory in late time probably CR 42 were not more from fighter unit)
had 1 loss for 3 Bf 110 in North Africa
had 1 loss for 1 Bf 110 in Tunisia
had 2 loss for 1 Bf 110 in Malta

this came from data for the CR 42 and the Bf 110 so it's probable there are others fighter vs Beaufighter

There is a lot more than that, I'll try to find some in the Mediterranean Air War series.

 

[Vincenzo]

you are a new member so i add that are not claims

 

[Glider]

I admit that my belief has always been that against a modern single engine fighter, the Beaufighter had little chance of surviving.
Support for that comes from the Naval Strike Wings where they needed extra support as unlike the Mosquito, they couldn't run.

Against the twin engine fighters of the early war, Me110, Ju88, the Beaufighter had a good chance against the Me110 and a considerable advantage over the Ju88. Over the Bay of Biscay Ju88 units were specifically ordered not to attack the Beaufighter unless they had the tactical advantage or if they had a significant numerical advantage.

In case your wondering, Ju88 units were ordered not to attack Mosquito's under any circumstances.

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

yes "Mediterranean Air War" (Shores) lists actual losses on both sides on a day by day basis, not just claims. I'll find an example or two & post today.

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

I admit that my belief has always been that against a modern single engine fighter, the Beaufighter had little chance of surviving.
Support for that comes from the Naval Strike Wings where they needed extra support as unlike the Mosquito, they couldn't run.

Against the twin engine fighters of the early war, Me110, Ju88, the Beaufighter had a good chance against the Me110 and a considerable advantage over the Ju88. Over the Bay of Biscay Ju88 units were specifically ordered not to attack the Beaufighter unless they had the tactical advantage or if they had a significant numerical advantage.

In case your wondering, Ju88 units were ordered not to attack Mosquito's under any circumstances.

I don't think Beaufighters fared well against Bf 109s or C.202s but those had short range and didn't venture far out to sea. The open sea lanes were where these birds had their best days, though they were also used sometimes for strafing attacks on Axis troops and air bases. IIRC there was a 'night fighter' squadron of Beaus in the Med which flew a lot of maritime and strike missions and proved very useful.

I don't know as many details about fighting in the Pacific, except I remember there used to be a wonderful website called "Pacific Victory Roll" which listed all of the claims and losses for the Australian and New Zealand pilots, and there were quite a few claims by the Aussie Beaufighters, though no information about verified losses by the Japanese. Sadly that website is down now, which is a real tragedy. It was a gem. Very nicely put together with a ton of good information, including bios of many of the pilots etc.

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

This is from Mediterranean Air War volume III

15 Dec 1942, 3 Beaufighters from 227 sqn together claimed a Ju 88, the Germans actually lost 3 x Ju-88A4 (the other two to US P-38s)
18 Dec 1942, 2 Beaufighter IF each claimed a Ju 88, German losses were 1 x Ju 88A4 and 1 x Ju 88A1
19 Dec 1942, 3 Beaufighter VIF from 227 sqn and one from 272 sqn claimed Ju 88 and He 111s, losing 2 x Beaufighters shot down and 2 heavily damaged. Spitfire Vs also made claims in the same areas. German losses were 4 x Ju 88 (an A-14, a C-6, an A-4, and a D-1), plus a Do 24 and a Ju 52. Only the Do 24 seems to have made claims.
20 Dec 1942, 1 Beaufighter VIf from 255 sqn claims an He 111, 3 Beaufighter IF from 255 sqn claim two Do 217 and a Ju 89. Acutal losses were 1 x He 111 and two Ju 88 (A-14 and A-4 trop)

So that is just four days...There were much bigger fights though

 

[fubar57]

I don't know as many details about fighting in the Pacific, except I remember there used to be a wonderful website called "Pacific Victory Roll" which listed all of the claims and losses for the Australian and New Zealand pilots, and there were quite a few claims by the Aussie Beaufighters, though no information about verified losses by the Japanese. Sadly that website is down now, which is a real tragedy. It was a gem. Very nicely put together with a ton of good information, including bios of many of the pilots etc.

Pacific Victory Roll - Home

web.archive.org

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

Ah, that's great, I forgot about wayback machine.