Belgian F-16 20mm cannon incident

GrauGeist · Oct 16, 2018

Tieleader said:
So I'm not the only one.

Nope...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Oct 16, 2018

GrauGeist said:
I believe the F-16 has a lockout that's engaged when the gear is extended...perhaps BiffF15 might have better details, but going back to a maintenance guy working on a live aircraft, how was that even permitted?

And even then, the discharge of the cannon cannot be "accidental", it has to be switched on and the trigger depressed...you don't just "bump" something and it goes off like that.

It's not when the gear is extended, but rather when the gear is on the ground. That is what a WOW switch does. As the strut compresses on the ground it activates the Switch which prevents things like accidental retraction of the gear, or jettison of the external stores.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Oct 16, 2018

Tieleader said:
Are those the red streamers you usually see hanging off the various parts and weapons in pixs?

Yes, anytime you install anything that is not supposed to remain on an aircraft during flight, and that includes rig pins, breech pins, engine plugs, etc., it will have a long red streamer attached to it so that it is not missed.

Leaving something like flight control rig pin installed can be catastrophic.

BiffF15 · Oct 16, 2018

GrauGeist said:
Thanks for weighing in, Biff.

I'm not overly versed in modern combat component procedure aboard these ships, but something doesn't seem to add up.

And I keep reading the details about the incident and certain things stand out, like the fully armed F-16 was in a hangar, for instance.

I know that Belgium has been going through a considerable amount civil turmoil recently and this has me wondering if it may be a case of poor vetting and security.

GrauGeist,

Fully armed and in a hanger is not a big deal, however more than one armed and in a hanger together is against USAF regs (gun excluded). We sat alert with armed jets, that were divided by living quarters, and it wasn't a problem due to a certain level of blast protection and distance. I think the reg is done like that to keep one jets weapons from cooking off and causing damage to an adjacent jet. Google alert shelters for Homestead or Keflavik NAS. I've sat alert in both and they are made from the same template with minor differences .

Cheers,
Biff

BiffF15 · Oct 16, 2018

Tieleader said:
Are those the red streamers you usually see hanging off the various parts and weapons in pixs?

Yes. On an Eagle with external wing tanks and weapons you will see streamers on the AIM9s for the cover of the seeker, and the cover for the target detection device (behind the seeker and covered by a sleeve). The tanks will have streamers for themselves (they jettison with a pyrotechnic charge), as well as the pylon that holds the tanks and missiles. The AIM7and the AIM9 are both armed by a locking mechanism on the missile fuselage (don't remember with AIM120). If there was a centerline pylon on the Eagle we kept it carted (jettisonable) as it allowed our JFS (APU in civilian speak) a larger inflight start envelope once jettisoned. Live Missiles carried on the fuselage were also carted for jettison. Anything carted, or live, would have a streamer attached to a pin that had to be pulled prior to flight.

Cheers,
Biff

BiffF15 · Oct 16, 2018

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
It's not when the gear is extended, but rather when the gear is on the ground. That is what a WOW switch does. As the strut compresses on the ground it activates the Switch which prevents things like accidental retraction of the gear, or jettison of the external stores.

DerAlder,

I don't think the external stores jettison is run through the WOW switch on fighters. If you had a tire blowout, which could easily damage the WOW switch or wires, and you needed to get rid of stores you would be stuck landing with a gear malfunction and potentially live weapons (thinking bombs here more than air to air missiles). Not a confidence inspiring set up when you need to land ASAP.

Cheers,
Biff

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Oct 16, 2018

BiffF15 said:
DerAlder,

I don't think the external stores jettison is run through the WOW switch on fighters. If you had a tire blowout, which could easily damage the WOW switch or wires, and you needed to get rid of stores you would be stuck landing with a gear malfunction and potentially live weapons (thinking bombs here more than air to air missiles). Not a confidence inspiring set up when you need to land ASAP.

Cheers,
Biff

That sounds very reasonable.

Tieleader · Oct 16, 2018

BiffF15 said:
Yes. On an Eagle with external wing tanks and weapons you will see streamers on the AIM9s for the cover of the seeker, and the cover for the target detection device (behind the seeker and covered by a sleeve). The tanks will have streamers for themselves (they jettison with a pyrotechnic charge), as well as the pylon that holds the tanks and missiles. The AIM7and the AIM9 are both armed by a locking mechanism on the missile fuselage (don't remember with AIM120). If there was a centerline pylon on the Eagle we kept it carted (jettisonable) as it allowed our JFS (APU in civilian speak) a larger inflight start envelope once jettisoned. Live Missiles carried on the fuselage were also carted for jettison. Anything carted, or live, would have a streamer attached to a pin that had to be pulled prior to flight.

Cheers,
Biff

Thanks for the info! You too Adler!

GreenKnight121 · Oct 19, 2018

BiffF15 said:
DerAlder,

I don't think the external stores jettison is run through the WOW switch on fighters. If you had a tire blowout, which could easily damage the WOW switch or wires, and you needed to get rid of stores you would be stuck landing with a gear malfunction and potentially live weapons (thinking bombs here more than air to air missiles). Not a confidence inspiring set up when you need to land ASAP.

Cheers,
Biff

Yes, the WOW switch most certainly does control stores jettison.

In 1987 aboard CV-61 Ranger I watched an F-14 Tomcat launch from one of the waist catapults (on the angle deck). As it lifted off, the fuel tanks and missiles all dropped off simultaneously. The aircraft immediately returned to the carrier, where it was found that the master stores jettison switch was shorted out internally - when the landing gear struts lengthened as weight came off, the jettison circuit was activated.

BiffF15 · Oct 19, 2018

GreenKnight121 said:
Yes, the WOW switch most certainly does control stores jettison.

In 1987 aboard CV-61 Ranger I watched an F-14 Tomcat launch from one of the waist catapults (on the angle deck). As it lifted off, the fuel tanks and missiles all dropped off simultaneously. The aircraft immediately returned to the carrier, where it was found that the master stores jettison switch was shorted out internally - when the landing gear struts lengthened as weight came off, the jettison circuit was activated.

GK,

Different manufacturers, different parameters. If I were designing a USN fighter I would do it the same way so as not to FOD the deck. When you have runways, IE more than one, I would make the stores jett hot when ever switched to on. This would allow the pilot to jett stores as or tanks when desired without the additional level of routing it thru a WOW switch, which could malfunction or be damaged. Different looks at safety and reliability depending on ones perspective.

Cheers,
Biff

Belgian F-16 20mm cannon incident

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