Best Aircraft in Many Different Roles Part II

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 29, 2006

Thats it. Bast*rd.

It was Lancy Bast*rd!

the lancaster kicks ass · Nov 29, 2006

you've taken a few liberties but impressive all the same

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Nov 29, 2006

Oh you love it, you know it!

Matt308 · Nov 29, 2006

Just glad I could help.

saltlakespitfire · Dec 14, 2006

How about rating the vought V4U-4 corair. It had gr8 ability as a fighter , could get off carrier decks with more ordnance under it's wing than some twin engined medium bombers. Okay maybe it would lose out to the mossie in range but I'am pretty sure in both fighting and bombing roles it was much better.
And lanc , what is Anti-tirpitzing and how is it different from anti - shipping

the lancaster kicks ass · Dec 14, 2006

Anti-Tirpitzing uses highballs

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 14, 2006

saltlakespitfire said:
How about rating the vought V4U-4 corair. It had gr8 ability as a fighter , could get off carrier decks with more ordnance under it's wing than some twin engined medium bombers. Okay maybe it would lose out to the mossie in range but I'am pretty sure in both fighting and bombing roles it was much better.
And lanc , what is Anti-tirpitzing and how is it different from anti - shipping

Again Corsair was a great aircraft but could it do all the roles of lets say the Ju-88, Fw-190, Hurricane, Typhoon and P-38?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 14, 2006

the lancaster kicks ass said:
Anti-Tirpitzing uses highballs

Speaking of the Tirpitz. Here are some pics that I took from actuall parts of the Tirpitz Cannon and Armour that was removed from the Tirpitz wreck when she was broken up. They are at the Sinsheim Museum that I went to a few weeks ago here in Germany.

the lancaster kicks ass · Dec 14, 2006

that's pretty sweet, one of the biggest inter-service rivalries in the RAF today exists between 9 and 617 sqns as each lay claim to sinking the tirpitz and so each lay claim to ownership of a bulkhead from the Tirpitz presented to the RAF by the Norwiegens (or however it's spelt...), they're always coming up with plans to steal it from each other, once when 9 sqn held it for a short time some crew members of 617sqn dressed as workmen and demolished the wall on which the Bulkhead was given pride of place by 9 sqn then took the bulkhead away in a van

mkloby · Dec 14, 2006

Nice pics chris - it's a damn shame she didn't survive the war...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 15, 2006

I agree. I really wish that atleast one of the great German battleships (there were not many in WW2! ) would have survived and could have been turned in a museum. That probably would not have happened anyhow. One of the allied powers would have tested it and then broken up it.

I need to travel to Bremerhaven where probably the best U-Boot (a surviving one) built during WW2 (Type XXI) is a museum)

Whoah this got way off topic though. lets get out of the water and back into the air.

goonwid · Dec 15, 2006

MMMMM, The Corsair was a fine aircraft and certainly looked the part but i feel it is only marginally less over hyped than the P-38, which lets face it wasn't a patch on the Mosquito was it?

mkloby · Dec 15, 2006

goonwid said:
MMMMM, The Corsair was a fine aircraft and certainly looked the part but i feel it is only marginally less over hyped than the P-38, which lets face it wasn't a patch on the Mosquito was it?

both the Mosquito and the Lightning were both VERY capable A/C. The F4U was a damn fine ship - you're right. I wouldn't call it "overhyped." Corsair is a sacred word to us Another excellent, and also adaptable A/C. If you got sit in the cockpit and fly one - I'd guarantee you wouldn't call one overhyped - or a P-38 either for that matter

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 16, 2006

I have to agree with you there mkloby. The Corsair was one of the best piston fighters ever produced.

Here is my list of the best aircraft in many different roles.

1. Junkers Ju-88
2. Mosquito
3. Lightning
4. Fw-190
5. Corsair
6. Hurricane

wmaxt · Dec 16, 2006

mkloby said:
both the Mosquito and the Lightning were both VERY capable A/C. The F4U was a damn fine ship - you're right. I wouldn't call it "overhyped." Corsair is a sacred word to us Another excellent, and also adaptable A/C. If you got sit in the cockpit and fly one - I'd guarantee you wouldn't call one overhyped - or a P-38 either for that matter

I agree as well.

Adler, I think it was you who asked about the P-38's 4:1 kill ratio as it applied to '43 when the Luftwaffe had air superiority as well as the most experianced pilots. The 55th and 20th FG's list a 1.5 Luftwaffe aircraft for every P-38 lost in that period. This was offset by the groups flying the L model hitting about 6:1 for an overall ave of 4:1.

wmaxt

Reluctant Poster · Dec 17, 2006

wmaxt said:
Welcome.

"Actually the P-38 did serve as a pathfinder, including radar guided bombing runs. As I see it the P-38 has an edge over the Mosquito (A fine aircraft in its own right) is that it took no special mods to go from toting 5200lbs bombs to a target 450 miles away to fighter escort the next day. If required a P-38M or F-5 could still drop 4000lbs of bombs any time it was asked. I don't know if the Mosquito towed gliders but the P-38 towed two from Wisconsin to Florida a flight of ~1200miles."

The maximum bomb load of a p-38 was 3200 lb not 5200 lb and it's combat radius with a 3200 lb bomb load was only 250 miles. In no way could the p-38 be considered a strategic bomber.

Reluctant Poster · Dec 17, 2006

wmaxt said:
I agree as well.

"Adler, I think it was you who asked about the P-38's 4:1 kill ratio as it applied to '43 when the Luftwaffe had air superiority as well as the most experianced pilots. The 55th and 20th FG's list a 1.5 Luftwaffe aircraft for every P-38 lost in that period. This was offset by the groups flying the L model hitting about 6:1 for an overall ave of 4:1. "

wmaxt

THe P-38 Claim to loss ratio was ~ 1:1 in Europe (ETO and MTO), 1771 aerial claims vs 1758 losses. This compares to the P-51's 4950 aerial claims vs 2520 losses, a claim to loss ratio of ~2:1. Data is from American Fighter Bombers in World War II by William Wolf.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 17, 2006

wmaxt said:
I agree as well.

Adler, I think it was you who asked about the P-38's 4:1 kill ratio as it applied to '43 when the Luftwaffe had air superiority as well as the most experianced pilots. The 55th and 20th FG's list a 1.5 Luftwaffe aircraft for every P-38 lost in that period. This was offset by the groups flying the L model hitting about 6:1 for an overall ave of 4:1.

wmaxt

Nope was not me.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 17, 2006

Reluctant Poster said:
The maximum bomb load of a p-38 was 3200 lb not 5200 lb and it's combat radius with a 3200 lb bomb load was only 250 miles. In no way could the p-38 be considered a strategic bomber.

Actually the P-38L and P-38J could carry up to 4000lb of bombs not 3200lb.

Reluctant Poster · Dec 17, 2006

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Actually the P-38L and P-38J could carry up to 4000lb of bombs not 3200lb.

I stand corrected. The important point is to realize is that in reality the P-38 did perform any more roles that a typical fighter such as an FW190, or for that matter, a P-51. Torpedo carrying and glider towing were interesting experiments, but that's all they were. The Drop-snoot was an evolutionary dead end.

Best Aircraft in Many Different Roles Part II

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