Best Aircraft in Many Different Roles Part II

Reluctant Poster · Dec 20, 2006

wmaxt said:
That would depend on wheather you define it as an indivdual aircraft or by airframe. The P-38 as an aircraft could do a number of not really related things just based on load-out. The Mossie had a lot of variations allowing particular aircraft to do different jobs but those aircraft were not redily interchangeable.

Another consideration is that the British were more inclined to build aircraft for a specific purpose, the Mossie and even the Fw-190 were excelent aircraft and so was the P-38 but none of these aircraft are directly comparable in many ways and they were all very flexible.

The Radius of operation in the ETO was defined by the 8th AF who never really supported the P-38 to its fullest capability. In the ETO the radius of operation for a P-38J was defined as up to 450mi on escort missions. In the PTO That was where the F model was limit was. In the Pacific a 2300mi mission was flown by P-38's. In the ETO the 8th never did provide the bigger 300 gal drop tanks and with a 300 gal drop tank 2,000lb bomb it was still capable of 600mi radius. Also it has been reported that P-38's with additional pylons flew with 5600lbs, the arangement consisted of several smaller bombs. With that set-up a load of three 500lbs bombs and a 300gal tank could still make that 600 mi radius. This was done in the Pacific (sometimes with rockets to).

With the contenders we have a single "Best" is really unrealistic!

wmaxt

A P-38 and an F-5 were not interchangeable! An FB VI mosquito could and did perform as many roles as any P-38

There are so many unsubstantiated claims for the P-38, I would love to see any proof that P-38s flew with 5600 lb of bombs or even a picture of one with 4 pylons.

If you put 2 x 300 gallon drop tanks on a P-38 you are carrying more fuel outside the aircraft, that means you are planning to fight with the drop tanks still on. Not a good idea in a P-38, witness Tom McGuire.

exec228 · Dec 21, 2006

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Fw-190G-0 could carry 2205lb Number built: unknown
Fw-190G-1 could carry 3968lb of Bombs Number built: 49
Fw-190G-2 could carry 3968lb of bombs Number built: 469
Fw-190G-3 could carry 3968lb of bombs Number built: unknown

did A-4/Jabo Einsatz, A-5/Jabo Einsatz and A-6/Jabo Einsatz carry the same amount as G-1, G-2 and G-3?

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
There was only one 1800kg 3968lb bomb in German inventory and that bomb had to have its fins modified to fit under the Fw-190.

PC 1800RA Panther, SC 1800 Satan, SD 1700 Sigmund or PC 1600?

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
However the Fw-190 could have up to 4 underwing hard points the 2 inner could carry 1000lb bombs and the two outer could carry 500lb bombs for 3000lb of bombs total.

well... having SC 500 under fus, it carried not further bombs, but 2x 300L fuel tanks.
and having 2x SC 250 under wings, it carried not an additional bomb, but 1x 300L fuel tank.
it's for A-5/U13 jabo-rei, later reindexed to G-2.

technically G-8 could lift 1x SC 500 + 2x SC 250, but typical load was 1x SC 500.

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Either way the Fw-190 could carry almost 4000lb of bombs.

with 1x ETC 501 (probably with additional 1x ER 4) and 4x ETC 50 (A-5/U17), or 1x ETC 501 and 2x V.Fw Trg (A-5/U13), HOW?

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
That is impossible for Lanc.

popular kits:
2141KG "Usual" 1x1814KG(HE, Cookie)+24x15KG(In) or 1x1814KG(HE, Cookie)+236x2KG(In)
4994KG "Plumduff-Plus" 1*3632KG(HE, Double Cookie)+6*227KG(HE)
5448KG "Tall-Boy" 1*5448KG(AP)
5900KG "No-Ball" 1*1814KG(HE, Cookie)+18*227KG(HE)
6123KG "Piece" 6*907KG(AP)+3*227KG(HE)
6356KG "Abnormal" 14*454KG(HE)
4086KG "Gardening" 6*681KG(paramine)
etc...
http://www.nucleus.com/~ltwright/aircraft.HTM

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 21, 2006

exec228 said:
PC 1800RA Panther, SC 1800 Satan, SD 1700 Sigmund or PC 1600?

Yeah there were others but I think the Fw-190G was only fitted with a SC 1800.

exec228 said:
popular kits:
2141KG "Usual" 1x1814KG(HE, Cookie)+24x15KG(In) or 1x1814KG(HE, Cookie)+236x2KG(In)
4994KG "Plumduff-Plus" 1*3632KG(HE, Double Cookie)+6*227KG(HE)
5448KG "Tall-Boy" 1*5448KG(AP)
5900KG "No-Ball" 1*1814KG(HE, Cookie)+18*227KG(HE)
6123KG "Piece" 6*907KG(AP)+3*227KG(HE)
6356KG "Abnormal" 14*454KG(HE)
4086KG "Gardening" 6*681KG(paramine)
etc...
http://www.nucleus.com/~ltwright/aircraft.HTM

What does that have to do with my off comment remark to Lanc.

exec228 · Dec 22, 2006

1)1800kg required almost a kilometer runway, and as Reluctant Poster said, it was an academical curiosity. i haven't found combat usage references.

2)fw 190 never lifted 2000kg of bombs.

3)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
What does that have to do with my off comment remark to Lanc.

what does it really mean?

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
That is impossible for Lanc.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 22, 2006

exec228 said:
what does it really mean?

I was not talking about a Lancaster or anyother other aircraft for a matter of fact exec228, (or should I call you killercrayon, the gigs up) I was talking about thelancasterkicksass.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 22, 2006

exec228 said:
2)fw 190 never lifted 2000kg of bombs.

No **** shirlock. Did I ever say it could carry 2000kg of bombs. NO! I said it could carry 1800kg of bombs which is a little over 3600lb. So if you read the post I said up there (yes actually read the post) I said it could carry almost 4000lb of bombs.

Please read all the posts before comenting.

exec228 · Dec 22, 2006

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
(or should I call you killercrayon, the gigs up)

he is my colleague.

exec228 · Dec 22, 2006

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
No **** shirlock. Did I ever say it could carry 2000kg of bombs. NO! I said it could carry 1800kg of bombs which is a little over 3600lb. So if you read the post I said up there (yes actually read the post) I said it could carry almost 4000lb of bombs.

Please read all the posts before comenting.

how many those bombs were dropped? do you have statistics?

FLYBOYJ · Dec 22, 2006

Here's a history of JG5. Look up other Jabo units that flew the 190 and do the math!

A History of 14.(Jabo)/J.G. 5

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 23, 2006

exec228 said:
he is my colleague.

Nice try, last guy that tried that got banned too.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 23, 2006

exec228 said:
how many those bombs were dropped? do you have statistics?

No I do not. And what does that prove. Nothing. Could the Fw-190 carry a 1800kg bomb. Yes. That is the point, so stop skirting around it.

Soren · Dec 23, 2006

Pretty amazing when you think about it, a 4,000 kg monoplane carrying a 1,800 kg bomb - that might as well have been an SUV

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 25, 2006

Skirtin around invisible again...

exec228 · Dec 27, 2006

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Skirtin around invisible again...

said 'just pressed'
was called n00b by so named heavyweight.
every1 happy.
imho incident closed.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 27, 2006

You still skirting around my question. What does the number of 1800kg bombs dropped by a Fw-190 have to do with whether the Fw-190 could do it or not?

mkloby · Dec 27, 2006

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
You still skirting around my question. What does the number of 1800kg bombs dropped by a Fw-190 have to do with whether the Fw-190 could do it or not?

Simple - it doesn't have much of anything to do w/ it...

exec228 · Dec 28, 2006

well, it does relate. if 1800kg could be lifted only with 1500m concrete runway carried at 1000m altitude and dropped at 10km range, it usually means that it was done very rarely in combat conditions.

for example, discussing load of Pe-8 i prefer to recall FAB-5000 (5000kg GPB) that was really used against enemy, and i absolutely don't remember which FAI record load Pe-8 can lift (i just remember that it done some records). actually i ain't even interested in abstract records of combat planes.

but if we talking about FAI records, and not combat usage, you are absolutely right.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Dec 28, 2006

However the Fw-190 could carry 1800kg of bombs. Yes or No, it was simple question. The answer was yes.

Now was that hard...

Reluctant Poster · Dec 29, 2006

The point is that the abilty to carry 4000 lb of bombs does not make a FW-190 or a P-38 a multirole aircraft. They are fighter bombers filling the same roles as a P51 or even an ME-109 or, god forbid, a Spifire. A Mosquito could and did take off from the UK, fly to Berlin, drop a 4000 lb bomb and return to base, a 550 mile round trip. This is what is known as strategic bombing. The other aircraft may have been capable of lifting 4000 lb of bombs, but about the only thing they could bomb was their own airfield.

Hunter368 · Dec 29, 2006

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