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The early B-26s entered combat with a crew of seven, a .30 cal in the nose, 3 .30 cals in the waist (left, right and tunnel), a twin .50 top turret, and a .50 in the tail. A single 250 gallon tank could be mounted in the left front bomb bay, increasing fuel load to 1212 gallons. These were originally unprotected steel tanks, though self sealing ones became available later. The 22nd began fitting .50 cals in the waist with sighting windows to improve visibility starting in June '42. Other field mods included a fixed .50 cal in the nose (on one aircraft) or extra sockets for .30 cals in the nose cone to cover the sides. (Guns were rarely mounted due to interference with the bombardier's primary job of dropping bombs.) Some aircraft had the flexible .30 cal in the nose exchanged for a .50 cal, But photo evidence shows that even into late '43 many still had the original .30 cal. The 28th Group in Alaska reduced the crew to four or five and deleted the manual guns due to a lack of aerial opposition. They specialized in torpedo and skip bombing, but the Aleutian weather limited operations. At least one was converted to strafer configuration with a pair of 20mm cannon and a pair of .50 cals poking through the nose cone, so the potential was there.Part of the problem with the B-26 is that it's "good" performance only comes at a rather low gross weight (much like many German Bombers).
The very early short wing jobs had the best performance but with rather limited bomb load/ range and defensive armament.On the early ones the bomb load and range could both be increased considerably but only at the cost of performance.
The very early ones were defended by three .50 cal guns and two .30s although this may have changed in the field.
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Unfortunately, every time they "improved" the wing (made it longer or tilted it) they promptly increased the Gross weight and negated any low speed improvement in take-off/handling. ALthough landing may have gotten easier.
Please note that the A-26 used double slotted fowler flaps (first plane to do so) so that it's landing characteristics and indeed it's low speed characteristics (whacking big vertical stabilizer) were in no way proportional to it's wing loading.
I have doubts that the flak defences in NA were any lighter than in NW Europe. Overall, the numbers might be fewer, though the numbers of flak formations (flak divisions) were greater in the MTO than in NW Europe 9trouble is composition of a flak div was variable). Just from memory (read that as "I should check") there were 11 flak divs in 1942, not including the "Dads army" home based Reich Defences within Germany itself. From memory there were 2 flak divs in NA in 1942 and just one in western Europe. The majority of flak defences in the NA TO were concentrated about high value targets like airfields and ports. Same in the ETO, but there were many more potential targets in the ETO, so less concentration of defences per target in that TO.
Valid only in the 1942-3 period. things changed after the defeats in NA and Sicily.
I'm sure some people would debate the definition of a medium bomber "to death" - the Soviets classified the B-25 as a "light bomber". Fortunately in the OP I specified what I meant, as:
" twin engine bombers which were produced in some numbers (at least a few hundred) and saw action in 1942 and 1943. And not the Mosquito because we already know that is the best."
You have a very specific idea of what a bomber is for, but bombers had a lot of different missions. Including for example destroying tanks, blowing up artillery positions and sinking ships - not just bombing factories or bridges or rail yards or setting cities on fire. Whether a given bomber is obsolete is irrelevant, I'm simply referring to which aircraft were in use.
Of course earlier types carried lighter bomb loads. But the weight of the bomb load isn't the main criteria, it's effectively managing to damage the target. A Ju-87 carried a much lighter bomb load than a Wellington but I guarantee they destroyed a lot more tanks and ships.
That's your criteria, not mine.
You only need that kind of horsepower in a very heavy aircraft. A B-25H was only making 272 mph with two 1,700 hp engines but an early Pe- 2 managed ~340 mph (or better) with 1,210 hp engines. I know they put larger engines in them later of course.
While mission to loss rate might be able to be found some of the other stuff is very hard to dig out, especially for Russian aircraft. Claims against ground targets are even less reliable that claims against aircraft. See Typhoon claims against tanks using rockets for insance.I'm interested less in opinions or stats and more in concrete things like mission to loss rate, the number of targets actually destroyed, operational limitations like effective range, and overall effect on the battlefield. I know the Soviets tracked mission too loss rates for all the aircraft they used, which was most allied aircraft, anyone have those numbers handy?
B-25s started in North Africa with one Group (four squadrons) In Aug/Sept 1942 and did valuable service before-during- and after El Alamein.By winter spring there were four bomb groups (each with 4 squadrons?)The B-25 was clearly effective in a maritime role especially in the Pacific, I'm not sure how effective they were in tactical or operational role against land targets particularly in Europe and the Med. Not saying they weren't - they were in fairly heavy use so I'm sure they had value, I'm just interested in how that compares with other types.
Medium bombers did have a lot of missions but you seem to be emphasizing the ground attack mission in direct support of the battlefield.
Well you also asked for the BEST and lightweight, obsolete aircraft are hardly in the running for "best". The Blenheim ...
Service PE-2s were lucky they could hit 330mph. They had 3 different upper rear gun positions which did affect speed. (snip) PE-2s as used by the Russians would have been near flops trying to do missions the British and American bombers did. (snip) We have already mentioned the bomb load and the range. It doens't matter if the plane can do 330mph if it can't reach the target area and return.
While mission to loss rate might be able to be found some of the other stuff is very hard to dig out, especially for Russian aircraft. Claims against ground targets are even less reliable that claims against aircraft. See Typhoon claims against tanks using rockets for insance.
Getting effective range when using external ordinance is also a difficult thing.
B-25s started in North Africa with one Group (four squadrons) In Aug/Sept 1942 and did valuable service
As usual, you are correct. The A-26 did not have as fast a landing speed as wing loading indicated, but the A-26B did have a landing speed of 100 mph, just 3 mph less than the B-26B. The B-25B landed at 90 mph, only 13 mph slower than the B-26B. I am a bit jaded, having trained in the AF in the 70s where ALL AF student pilots trained in the T-38 and learned how to fly in an aircraft that took 10k ft to do a loop and landed at around 160 mph, so I don't think 10 mph is significant, certainly not enough to make bigger wings. Also, as I have said before, change was in the air. In this time frame the, in addition to the A-26, the B-29 was in flight test and landing at 100 mph, The P-80 was close to first flight and landing at 104+ mph, the F-84 was soon to be on the drawing board and would be flying in couple of years with a landing speed of 129+ mph, and the B-47, which was in the concept stage and would fly within 5 years, had a landing speed of 207 mph. Fast planes require smaller wings. In addition, since lift is function of speed squared, if you want to lift more off the runway, don't build bigger wings, build faster planes. Faster planes usually need faster landing speeds. So, give me the extra speed of the short wings and I'll put up with the extra 13 mph on landing but I think 103 on landing would hohum.Please note that the A-26 used double slotted fowler flaps (first plane to do so) so that it's landing characteristics and indeed it's low speed characteristics (whacking big vertical stabilizer) were in no way proportional to it's wing loading.
I thought about this and pondered it somewhat but I remembered my pilot training days, some 48 years ago, and the changes we went through. For the first couple of months we trained in the T-41 (Cessna 172) (mainly to weed out the incompetent or those prone to air sickness), which had a landing speed of 70-80 mph, then we transition into the T-37 with an approach speed of 100-132 mph, after about four months we transitioned into the T-38 which has an approach speed of up to 200 mph for pattern flying (heavy fuel load)(178 mph minimum). We had very good ground training and excellent flight training. I don't remember any particular difficulties in any of the transitions. I was in the top 25% of my class but I don't remember too many having trouble with the T-38 and most graduated that made it to the T-38. So I still feel that with adequate training, the higher landing speeds should have been no problem.Well, somethings are proportional going from 100 to 110 ia 10%. Going from say 80 to 100mph is a 25% increase.
This, I think, is a reasonable comment. I suspect the workload of a prop plane is much higher than a jet and general marginal power and asymmetric thrust, along with high torque would cause rough situations. I flew C-141s which were overpowered and engine out approaches were no sweat although you had to be on the rudder at go-around. Now an early KC-135 driver might have a different comment (we had the same power on three engines as they had on four (with water injection) and grossed out at about the same weight).Also remember that a lot of the accidents were from engine outs on take-off and the A-26 crossed over the B-26 here, a lot depended on how each plane was loaded but the minimum single engine control speed for the A-26 wasn't much different than the B-26.
Try substituting, as much as possible, one aircraft for another.
Going back to the PE-2 it has a range in most sources of around 750-800 miles, at 80% of max speed ? According to one source the early ones had 287 US gallons of fuel and later ones got up to 392 gallons by enlarging the fuselage tank and adding extra tanks in the outer wings. The recon versions often carried drop tanks.
It suited Russian needs, especially as their fighters made lousy fighter bombers/close support aircraft.
However it was hardly a "medium" bomber being short of range, bombload and defensive armament.
The "Mediums" could perform a variety of roles and if dive bombing tanks wasn't one of them, then so be it. They could still attack supply dumps, roads/truck convoys, railroads, ports, ships at sea, air fields and other targets in addition to some strategic targets. Even without gun ship noses the later B-25C & Ds had two fixed .50s in the nose and one flexible.
The Hudson, Blenheim, Maryland and Beaufort just couldn't deliver the payloads the bigger bombers could. Weren't fast enough and didn't really have up to date defensive armament. The Big mediums were hardly invulnerable but a pair of .50s in a power turret beats whatever the others had.
The Ventura was speedy low down but the early ones had a rather restricted bomb load.
Ok lets bu how about we use the right numbers.Ok, lets compare some stats:
The DB-7/A-20 has always been one of my favorite bombers and from everything I've read, I would agree with your take on the pilot's feelings. Perhaps the range could have been longer but the aircraft was fast and nimble for an early war bomber and gave as well as any could hope to everywhere she was used.Shortround said "Early A-20s are disliked in the pacific due to short range." I suspect this dislike was at the operations level. From all I have read the pilots really liked the plane.
Here's a neat video on flying the A-20. Good rendition of multi-engine flying and emergency procedures. Interesting accommodations for observer pilots!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlzSkd9HKEo
@ SR 6: actually, I think you'll find the Hurricane carried more 20mm ammo - than most early war - Spitfires did..
I would be rather leary of Soviet definitions. How much was motivated by propaganda I don't know.
Russian fighters were lousy fighter bombers because they carried light armament and light bomb loads. There is no escaping that. the V-12 powered fighters had as single 20mm cannon, the 37mm and 45mm cannon get a lot of ink/bandwidth but total production numbers? The Russian 20mm cannon was also a bit limited in power. It sure wasn't the best 20mm at piercing armor and it carried about 1/2 the explosive that the Hispano did. Ammo carried was little on the light side too.
Hurricane was certainly obsolete as a fighter
The Russian rockets are a real hoot. The entire RS-82 rocket weighed 15lbs, ... Actual explosive in the warhead was 360 grams, less than a 75mm artillery shell or 81 mm mortar.
So yes, the Russian fighters made poor fighter bombers in that you needed to use a lot of them to get the same effect the Americans and British could get with much smaller numbers.
Ok lets bu how about we use the right numbers.
///------------------------------ A-20C /--------/ Pe -2 ///
Speed------------------------- 340+ mph /// 325 mph
The Stuka was bit over rated and you also have to consider what was the Russian scale of issue of AA guns. I would note that the Germans didn't try using Stukas very much in the west in 1943. Too many fighters and British/American AA guns were popping up all over the place.
@ SR 6: actually, I think you'll find the Hurricane carried more 20mm ammo - than most early war - Spitfires did..
S Schweik , "The Germans got more tactical & operational benefit from Stukas,
than they did from any of their mediums..."
Ah, no...
Check Poltava, in USSR, Bari in Italy, & the destructive raids on Allied airbases in Corsica, by the Kampfgruppen,
& I'm pretty sure, Stukas didn't tote anti-shipping missiles, either..