Erich
the old Sage
simple answer is : nope ! yes there are photos but it is after war when the pacific squads were doing ops over China. the standard P-38 without radar was used in darker day fighter camo
Best Allied Nightfighter: P-61, Mosquito, or Hellcat?
- Thread starter kitfox
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Burmese Bandit
Senior Airman
- 474
- Dec 5, 2008
Mosquito!!!
Cheap, deadly, fast, accurate, and reliable...what's not to like???
Cheap, deadly, fast, accurate, and reliable...what's not to like???
Messy1
Master Sergeant
I went with the P-61. (Big surprise)
But am learning alot, interesting post.
But am learning alot, interesting post.
koutsivtom
Recruit
P - 61!!!!That plane was designed for night fighter from the beginning.Well equiped,powerfull with 2 super engines of its time,advanced enginnering,with the first actually air radar!It was like a cadillac of the air.Far from its time,clearly......But unfortunatelly its value couldn't be clear because when it was appeared there wasn't any enemy......
The P-61 was not the first aircraft to use radar. It was the first US aircraft purposely built to use radar.
Plenty of aircraft used radar before the P-61 was built, including the:
Mossie
Ju 88
Bf 110
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
the Blenheim and Defiant
Glider
Captain
The Beaufighter, Do217 and even the Hurricane (in Burma)
Night Fighter Nut
Master Sergeant
I found this on a website that gave a little history of the night fighters. It appears there was a competition between the Widow and the Mossie. This is what was written as a result of that competition.
"To resolve the controversy, Lt. Gen. Carl A. Spaatz, Commander of United States Strategic Air Forces in Europe, ordered a July 5, 1944, flyoff at Hurn, England, pitting the P-61 directly against Vandenberg's choice, the British Mosquito. Lt. Col. Winston W. Kratz, director of night fighter training in the United States, bet $500 that the Mosquito could outperform the Widow. According to the 422d NFS historian, the competing P-61, "tweaked" to get maximum performance, proved faster at all altitudes, "outturned the Mossie at every altitude and by a big margin and far surpassed the Mossie in rate of climb." All in all, the historian noted, "a most enjoyable afternoon-Kratz paid off." The official report concluded that the "P-61 can out-climb the Mosquito due to the ability of the P-61 to operate indefinitely at military power without overheating," critical to closing on a bogey. "
Without being bias to any one aircraft, I think the two were very close in night fighting efficiency but the P-61 seems to be the winner between the two based on this account. It wouldn't, however, be the first time that people chose their favorite aircraft against all others no matter what the data.
"To resolve the controversy, Lt. Gen. Carl A. Spaatz, Commander of United States Strategic Air Forces in Europe, ordered a July 5, 1944, flyoff at Hurn, England, pitting the P-61 directly against Vandenberg's choice, the British Mosquito. Lt. Col. Winston W. Kratz, director of night fighter training in the United States, bet $500 that the Mosquito could outperform the Widow. According to the 422d NFS historian, the competing P-61, "tweaked" to get maximum performance, proved faster at all altitudes, "outturned the Mossie at every altitude and by a big margin and far surpassed the Mossie in rate of climb." All in all, the historian noted, "a most enjoyable afternoon-Kratz paid off." The official report concluded that the "P-61 can out-climb the Mosquito due to the ability of the P-61 to operate indefinitely at military power without overheating," critical to closing on a bogey. "
Without being bias to any one aircraft, I think the two were very close in night fighting efficiency but the P-61 seems to be the winner between the two based on this account. It wouldn't, however, be the first time that people chose their favorite aircraft against all others no matter what the data.
idk on P-61 but on other fighters R-2800 can't operate indefinitely in military.
Messy1
Master Sergeant
Night Fighter, do you know the website you found that info on? Would like to read it myself as the Black Widow is my favorite plane too!
pbfoot
1st Lieutenant
and a very limited operational record , IIRC the top scoring USAAF night fighter ace named Harrington preffered the Mosquito over the P61 but then all his kills were in the Mossie
There was a lot going on behind the scenes of that fly-off.
Senior figures in the USAAF were concerned that the P-61 wasn't up to the job. They were pushing the British for more Mosquitoes. The problem was there weren't enough Mosquitoes to go round, and some RAF and USAAF squadrons were still using Beaufighters.
Meanwhile the US night fighter squadron in question had trained and equipped with the P-61 and wanted to show what they could do. So you had the USAAF pilots desperate to win and the RAF desperate to lose.
The Mosquito involved was an NF XVII. Despite the high mark number, the NF XVII was basically an early Mk II with radar.
Colonel Winston Kratz was director of night fighter training in the USAAF and helped organise the fly-off. He said:
Messy1
Master Sergeant
I am inclined to believe the P-61 was no where near as fast as the Mosquito. The P-61 just had so much more bulk to move around.
Erich
the old Sage
the Widow was not the NF that the US was hoping the Mossie XIX and XXX were truly the top of the line NF's for the Allies. the Widow proved itself overall as most probably the best intruder type armed with naphalm and bombs in the night ground attack role
Hmmm...
I guess I'd vote for the Mosquito, as the P-61 didn't see enough action IMHO. Hellcat was basically a typical fighter type and they stuck a radar pod on the wing, early on the USN used a team of one radar equipped Avenger acting as a sort of fighter controller for two Hellcats, but experiments with this system were not successful, resulting in the death of the great "Butch" O'Hare by friendly fire. On the other hand, Hellcat/Corsair night fighters were necessary on USN carriers since they could not operate Mosquitoes or P-61's.
I guess I'd vote for the Mosquito, as the P-61 didn't see enough action IMHO. Hellcat was basically a typical fighter type and they stuck a radar pod on the wing, early on the USN used a team of one radar equipped Avenger acting as a sort of fighter controller for two Hellcats, but experiments with this system were not successful, resulting in the death of the great "Butch" O'Hare by friendly fire. On the other hand, Hellcat/Corsair night fighters were necessary on USN carriers since they could not operate Mosquitoes or P-61's.
Loiner
Senior Airman
Seems a short list, what about the night fighting variants of the likes of Bf110 G, Ju88 R or the Beaughfighter MkI, all of which were a success.
Not sure which allied air forces flew Bf110's or Ju 88's, but the Beaufighter, while an extremely worthy aircraft, is not going to be voted better than the Mosquito by anyone, is it? For the same reason I don't get why the Hellcat is in the poll alongside the P-61?
