I truely believe that Hitler thought the British would sue for peace after France fell.
Best Bomber of WW2 (continued)
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the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
yes he did think we were weak, what a idiot 
It was a mistake.
Nonskimmer
Captain
He also didn't count on the stubborn "colonial" help. 
I think it was a given that they would help.
Nonskimmer
Captain
Yeah, true enough I suppose.
Well they were greatly influenced.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
by that you mean they had no choise really...........
Basically yes.
MP-Willow
Staff Sergeant
But the bigger bomber would have helped to get to the Russian production as well. That ability to just pack up and move gave them great life. Hitler should have never stopped bombing the RAF bases!
with out the "Colonials" England would have had hard time in South Asia. then again if they did not have the colonies they would have have been there. Germany and Japan both tried to get India to cast off the British crown. I saw an interesting movie about it centered in Goa.
with out the "Colonials" England would have had hard time in South Asia. then again if they did not have the colonies they would have have been there. Germany and Japan both tried to get India to cast off the British crown. I saw an interesting movie about it centered in Goa.
That is true, heavy bombers would have really been helpfull on the Eastern Front.
Gemhorse
Senior Airman
Actually, I'm rather miffed that Britain gave all that help to Russia....By the War's end, their production figures were almost as impressive as the US, particuarly fighters, but they never really built a decent bomber themselves....and when they started to, post-war, it was a copy of a B-29, a stolen design from 3 that had forced-landed in Russia.....
But from a 'colonial' point-of-view, the aircraft that Churchill 'gushingly' gave Stalin in the early stage of the War, deprived 'Fortress Singapore' of some decent fighters to help defend the invasion of Malaya......
In fact, at the end of August 1941, Churchill gave Stalin 200 Hurricanes in addition to the 40 already supplied, with 200 Tomahawks promised from deliveries due from the US...Consequently, Singapore was refused further proposed reinforcements....In effect, the few RAF, RAAF and RNZAF pilots there, had to tackle a huge Jap invasion force with 170 crapped-out Buffaloes the US had 'off-loaded' on the RAF Purchasing Commission, the odds of 16 to one being fought by the Allies against far superior Jap aircraft.....The RAF High Command were in total denial about the Japanese Aerial abilities, and once again the colonials suffered....it was like another 'Gallipoli'....
In the face of Stalin and Hitler's 'non-aggression pact' earlier, and then Hitler reneges by invading Russia, Churchill chummys-up to Stalin at the great expense of colonial lives.....He could've just let what the US contributed to Russia, the P-39's and P-40's do the job....By the time Hurricanes reached Singapore, were uncrated and ready to fly, and pilots orientated, it was too bloody late....
In my opinion, the best bombers the Allies had in Asia and Pacific, earlier-on, were the Hudson, and then the Venturas.....
The only use Russia was to the rest of the Allies, was as that 'second-front', and we should've let them battle it out, it was obvious that Germany couldn't possibly gobble-up all of Russia; the lessons of Napolean weren't that old to learn from, and for the Lancasters sorting-out the Tirpitz.....apart from that, they were secretive, selfish and greedy buggers......
But from a 'colonial' point-of-view, the aircraft that Churchill 'gushingly' gave Stalin in the early stage of the War, deprived 'Fortress Singapore' of some decent fighters to help defend the invasion of Malaya......
In fact, at the end of August 1941, Churchill gave Stalin 200 Hurricanes in addition to the 40 already supplied, with 200 Tomahawks promised from deliveries due from the US...Consequently, Singapore was refused further proposed reinforcements....In effect, the few RAF, RAAF and RNZAF pilots there, had to tackle a huge Jap invasion force with 170 crapped-out Buffaloes the US had 'off-loaded' on the RAF Purchasing Commission, the odds of 16 to one being fought by the Allies against far superior Jap aircraft.....The RAF High Command were in total denial about the Japanese Aerial abilities, and once again the colonials suffered....it was like another 'Gallipoli'....
In the face of Stalin and Hitler's 'non-aggression pact' earlier, and then Hitler reneges by invading Russia, Churchill chummys-up to Stalin at the great expense of colonial lives.....He could've just let what the US contributed to Russia, the P-39's and P-40's do the job....By the time Hurricanes reached Singapore, were uncrated and ready to fly, and pilots orientated, it was too bloody late....
In my opinion, the best bombers the Allies had in Asia and Pacific, earlier-on, were the Hudson, and then the Venturas.....
The only use Russia was to the rest of the Allies, was as that 'second-front', and we should've let them battle it out, it was obvious that Germany couldn't possibly gobble-up all of Russia; the lessons of Napolean weren't that old to learn from, and for the Lancasters sorting-out the Tirpitz.....apart from that, they were secretive, selfish and greedy buggers......
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Gemhorse
Senior Airman
That says alot about where Churchill's real priorities lay....The British High Command really had their head in the sand with Singapore, and the totally erroneous information they farmed-out about 'Fortress Singapore'' and the Buffalo bordered on politically criminal....They had a really good chance of putting a spanner in Japan's ambitions right back then, if they had've kept Singapore and India up to sensible strength, but as far as the 'Empire' went, they were a colonial backwater for posting doddering old staff officers to, and even when the fur started to fly up country, they were only working until midday, until the Aussie High Command stirred them up.....it was a large blot on the RAF's relatively clean-sheet.....[mumble, mumble.....]
Russia should've been made to stew in it's own duplicity for awhile, Britain had enough to worry about. Hitler did us a HUGE favour invading them....
Russia should've been made to stew in it's own duplicity for awhile, Britain had enough to worry about. Hitler did us a HUGE favour invading them....
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A lot of the problem with the CBI was mixing up of priorities. Burma was considered low on the list of important areas to hold. By 1943 they realised that Burma was more important to hold the Indian ocean than Malay or Singapore.
No effort should have been made to save Malay, the primary forces should have been sent to Singapore and Burma.
With the aid to Russia Churchill was securing a safe perimeter around the British homeland. Allowing the Soviets to tie up significant forces in the East allowed Britain to concentrate on it's plans, rather than bending to Germany's plans. In the West after June 22nd, 1941, Britain was dictating the situation not Germany. I think Churchill was desperate to keep it that way.
Singapore was a bad loss but it's importance was not as great as it seems. The defeat was extremely important to moral and proving to Japan that Britain was over-stretched but I find that the real important area was Burma and India. That's not just because it was fought in that zone but Burma and India control the Indian Ocean, with them held supplies from Europe can reach the CBI with relative ease compared to the loss of Burmese or Indian ports which would have left Australia isolated.
If Singapore had been kept but Burma and India lost, Singapore's importance would be zilch.
No effort should have been made to save Malay, the primary forces should have been sent to Singapore and Burma.
With the aid to Russia Churchill was securing a safe perimeter around the British homeland. Allowing the Soviets to tie up significant forces in the East allowed Britain to concentrate on it's plans, rather than bending to Germany's plans. In the West after June 22nd, 1941, Britain was dictating the situation not Germany. I think Churchill was desperate to keep it that way.
Singapore was a bad loss but it's importance was not as great as it seems. The defeat was extremely important to moral and proving to Japan that Britain was over-stretched but I find that the real important area was Burma and India. That's not just because it was fought in that zone but Burma and India control the Indian Ocean, with them held supplies from Europe can reach the CBI with relative ease compared to the loss of Burmese or Indian ports which would have left Australia isolated.
If Singapore had been kept but Burma and India lost, Singapore's importance would be zilch.
Gemhorse
Senior Airman
Yeah, I acknowledge that, but what were they thinking by sending the 'Prince of Wales and the Repulse' down there, in Dec 1941, when an adequate supply of 'sensible' fighters could've stemmed the invasion of N. Malaya, and consequently Singapore ?....By the time they were approaching Singapore proper, the Japs had overrun 15 odd British airfields, which they called 'Churchill aerodromes', because of all the fuel, ammo and stuff, left in the haste of withdrawl.....they used all that to further clobber us !....If it wasn't for a few Hudsons and Marylands, every other aircraft was a biplane, other than America's first monoplane, the Buffaloes, that could even drop a bomb back on them !....
As far as the capital ships went, they chugged-off to sort-out some alleged landings off up the coast, refusing air escort, and then when they got attacked, radioed for help but it took ages to find the remains...no real sensible inter-service communications........
As far as the capital ships went, they chugged-off to sort-out some alleged landings off up the coast, refusing air escort, and then when they got attacked, radioed for help but it took ages to find the remains...no real sensible inter-service communications........
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Inter-service communication has always been a problem with British forces.
I have heard on several occasions that Singapore could have been held if the coastal artillery could be turned inland. The more I hear about Singapore the less I believe that alone could have saved the place, but what do you think?
I have heard on several occasions that Singapore could have been held if the coastal artillery could be turned inland. The more I hear about Singapore the less I believe that alone could have saved the place, but what do you think?
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
plan_D said:
i thought it was 14% of production from britian and her emipre?? and once the empire comes into it we're talking huge ammounts.........
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