Best Fighter in the Pacific and CBI Theaters in 1942

[Vincenzo]

i'm neither pilot or aeronautic engineer so idk the value of sustained turn of rate, i thinked some, but was in wrong
true, aside type 0 model 32

 

[syscom3]

Unless I am mistaken, the 1942 versions of the Ki-44 were underarmed at 2 x 7.7mm and 2 x 12.7mm.

It might fly great, but it didnt have much of a bite.

 

[Hunter368]

Looks like the Zero is the most popular by a land side.

 

[HoHun]

Hi Syscom,

>Unless I am mistaken, the 1942 versions of the Ki-44 were underarmed at 2 x 7.7mm and 2 x 12.7mm.

Hm, true. Here is a firepower comparison (based on the 7.7 mm Browning data for all rifle-calibre guns, and the Ho-103 as Japanese 12.7 mm machine gun):

P-39D          1,77 MW
P-40E          1,70 MW
A6M3           1,20 MW
F4F-3          1,14 MW
F2A-3          1,14 MW
Hurricane IIB  0,90 MW
Ki-44-I        0,51 MW
Ki-43-I        0,26 MW

(Ki-43-I calculated with 1 x 7.7 mm, 1 x 12.7 mm guns.)

However, considering that the performance advantage the Ki-44-I enjoys over all Allied fighters is either a massive speed advantage over most of the altitude range, or a massive climb rate advantage over the entire altitude range along with a modest speed advantage, the firepower disadvantage is not all that serious. With that kind of superiority, you will often be able to fly repeat attacks if the first attack did not result in a kill for lack of firepower.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[HoHun]

Hi again,

It just occurred to me to include the P-400 (based on a 1:1 HEI/SAPI belting)

P-400          1,93 MW
P-39D          1,77 MW
P-40E          1,70 MW
A6M3           1,20 MW
F4F-3          1,14 MW
F2A-3          1,14 MW
Hurricane IIB  0,90 MW
Ki-44-I        0,51 MW
Ki-43-I        0,26 MW

The P-400 clearly has the best armament in this commparison - well, the type was designed around its armament, so that was to be expected. The only surprise is that the Hispano-armed version has greater firepower than the one with a 37 mm cannon.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[syscom3]

That 7.7mm MG wont have much effect against the heavier constructed allied types.

That leaves a single 12.7mm MG.

I would bet the Ki-44 would run out of ammo before it would do a lot of damage.

 

[HoHun]

Hi Syscom,

>That 7.7mm MG wont have much effect against the heavier constructed allied types.

Lots of heavily-constructed Luftwaffe aircraft were shot down by 7.7 mm MGs during the Battle of Britain. Poor firepower does not mean a weapon is ineffective, it just means that you must make greater efforts to achieve the same result as with a higher firepower weapon.

>That leaves a single 12.7mm MG.

Above, you suggested that the Ki-44 was equipped with two 12.7 mm machine guns.

>I would bet the Ki-44 would run out of ammo before it would do a lot of damage.

I would bet it was well able to shoot down all types of Allied aircraft as its firepower was in comparable to that of the Spitfire I or Hurricane I, but with more powerful 12.7 mm guns in the mix.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[syscom3]

Hi Syscom,

>That 7.7mm MG wont have much effect against the heavier constructed allied types.

Lots of heavily-constructed Luftwaffe aircraft were shot down by 7.7 mm MGs during the Battle of Britain. Poor firepower does not mean a weapon is ineffective, it just means that you must make greater efforts to achieve the same result as with a higher firepower weapon.

>That leaves a single 12.7mm MG.

Above, you suggested that the Ki-44 was equipped with two 12.7 mm machine guns.

>I would bet the Ki-44 would run out of ammo before it would do a lot of damage.

I would bet it was well able to shoot down all types of Allied aircraft as its firepower was in comparable to that of the Spitfire I or Hurricane I, but with more powerful 12.7 mm guns in the mix.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

8 or 6 .303's will trump 2 x 7.7's.

But still, 2 x 12.7's means your aim has to be perfect to do any damage.

 

[tomo pauk]

Hi,
Did any of CBI Hurricanes featured an all-cannon weapon set-up (the -IIC version)?

 

[HoHun]

Hi Syscom,

>8 or 6 .303's will trump 2 x 7.7's.

Just a few posts above when you still knew how to count, you came up with 2 x 7.7 mm and 2 x 12.7 mm machine guns for the Ki-44-I.

That's the set of guns to compare to whatever else might trump it or not.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[HoHun]

Hi Tomo,

>Did any of CBI Hurricanes featured an all-cannon weapon set-up (the -IIC version)?

I'm not sure. I read at least in one book that the armament on 12-gun fighters was reduced at squadron level to 8 guns to save weight. Wish I'd remember the title - Hurricane over Sumatra perhaps, Hurricane over the Jungle, or maybe Hurricane over Burma.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

 

[Hunter368]

That 7.7mm MG wont have much effect against the heavier constructed allied types.

That leaves a single 12.7mm MG.

I would bet the Ki-44 would run out of ammo before it would do a lot of damage.

The Jap 7.7mm was preferred by some Jap aces over their cannons. They shot down lots of US and UK planes during WW2.

But I do agree with you on this point Syscom, what works for the few does not mean its works the best for the masses. Wars are won by the masses.

My preference would of been for 0.5 cal - 20mm guns on any fighter I flew.

4 - 20mmm

or (either kicks butt or a combo of both)

6-8 0.5 cal

 

[Timppa]

Hi,
Did any of CBI Hurricanes featured an all-cannon weapon set-up (the -IIC version)?

Looking at OOB's from Shores' book it seems that for example:
Jan 1943: 12 Hurricane IIb and 6 IIc squadrons.
Jul 1944: 11 squadrons, all IIc
Jun 1945: Still one IIc squadron (42nd).

 

[tomo pauk]

Thanks.

Since there were 6 squadrons of the all-cannon variant in CBI theatre in Jan 1943, it's safe guess that we should count in some of them in later part of 1942.
So the Hurricane IIc has had the greatest fire power, by a land mile.

 

[syscom3]

Thanks.

Since there were 6 squadrons of the all-cannon variant in CBI theatre in Jan 1943, it's safe guess that we should count in some of them in later part of 1942.
So the Hurricane IIc has had the greatest fire power, by a land mile.

Lets not jump to conclusions ..... Lets see how many were flying in Nov and Dec 1942.

While tchnically they would take top honors, if there werent too many flying, then I wouldnt include it in this tpoll/thread. Just like what I said about the P38.

 

[tomo pauk]

We should indeed find out how many Hurricane IICs were available; that's why asked the question.

I propose that we should have two entries for the Zero in performance charts. One with the Sakae featuring the two-stage compressor (Sakae-21?, so 580 km/h) and one with single stage compressor (capable for 530km/h).

 

[Vincenzo]

afaik Type 0 model 21 max speed ~550 km/h at max power

 

[syscom3]

We should indeed find out how many Hurricane IICs were available; that's why asked the question.

I propose that we should have two entries for the Zero in performance charts. One with the Sakae featuring the two-stage compressor (Sakae-21?, so 580 km/h) and one with single stage compressor (capable for 530km/h).

This poll is inclusive for any model, that was available in quantity and in theater for 1941/1942.

 

[tomo pauk]

This poll is inclusive for any model, that was available in quantity and in theater for 1941/1942.

No problem with that.