Best Nightfighter of WW2

[cheddar cheese]

It is reckoned that the P-38M would have been a better nightfighter than the P-61 Black Widow, as it was more manoeverable, faster and had better firepower. The only problem was for the radar operator, as it was a little cramped back there. But the again it was originally a single seat fighter so you can complain too much.

 

[Karaya_1]

A better firepower ? 4 MG and 1 20mm-cannon (Lightning) against 4 MG and 4 20mm-cannons (P-61)......there's no question about firepower.......and thats nothing against 4 30mm-cannons of the Me 262 B

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

4x30mm of the -262, that's nothing, the He-219 carried 4x30mm Mk108, 2x30mm Mk103 and 2x20mm MG151/20.............

 

[cheddar cheese]

Jeez...

Id have a 190A-8 for the firepower department anyday though.

 

[Karaya_1]

Yes, but the 2 MK 103 fired upward ("Jazz Music")....

 

[cheddar cheese]

But the 190 was faster and more manoeverable

 

[The Jug Rules!]

the he-219 was pig ugly, no wonder they only flew it at night, the pilots wouldn't be seen dead flying it in the daytime, but i vote the mosquito.............

Nope, I read about a P-51 pilot who ran into one. I t went 20 feet over his head going like hell.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Yes, but the 2 MK 103 fired upward

it still carried them.................

 

[cheddar cheese]

He was championing that point...

 

[Tigger]

Mosquito NF XIX or XXX - i.e. later builds with AI MkX radar and new airframes. The XXXs had the more powerful two-stage Merlines, but the XIXs had more effective exhaust flame damping (harder to see).

I read accounts in Martin Bowman's Mosquito books about Heinkel 219 Uhu's fitted with rocket motors to get aloft quickly. Does anyone know anything about these?

My understanding is that Mosquito NF vs Heinkel 219 was about even - 14 or so shoot-downs confirmed by each side. At least one shoot-down was when a Mosquito crew tracked a Uhu's rocket-type assisted take-off, watched it fire some rockets at egressing bombers (they thought it was an Me-163 Komet at first) and then intercepted and shot it down. The account also makes reference to the Uhu's ejection seats!

Does anyone have info about the jet/rocket-assisted takeoff gear used by the Uhu?

 

[Erich]

the rocket assisted a/c was experimental only, none were shot down.

 

[Tigger]

The RAF accounts differ from that. It posssibly might have been a Heinkel He-162 owing to the twin-tails which were similar in rear aspect to a He-219, but the crew's description was very specific...
They had enough time to ID the Bandit as He-219 and watched it go up, then down.
There were HE-219s with rocket-pods (similar to 1950s JATO). the Rocket was under, not over, the fuselage.
Maybe German records say "lost in experimental test flight"!
Sounds good to me!

 

[Erich]

there are no German records of lost jet powered assisted Uhu's. No He 162's flew at night and none of the Me 163's either that have cropped up in Allied acct.s. I have dealt with this for over 25 years and can find nothing in written texts from the German archivs............

will agree tha the Mossie XXX was the top dog for the RAF and the Ju 88G-6 was the top dog for the Luftwaffe. The Bf 110G-4 did it's work for most of the war, but it was too cramped, no rear warning radar for most models and the a/c needed anotehr pair of eyes to watch for the Mossie intruders. The JU 88G-6 filled that role and the Schragwaffen installation was mounted along the fuselage outdie of the cockpit where the noise in the 110 from firing the weapon was horrendous. The Ju 88 G's had a longer range which was well suited for interior of the Reich defence units, as NJG 1 gruppen still equipped in 1945 were based close to the Dutch/German border

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

the mossie has no opposistion for the title of greatest allied NF really..........

 

[cheddar cheese]

Not really, the P-61 gave it a close run for its money but didnt really see the action of the Mossie to prove it better.

If only the P-38M had seen more service, then we might be singing a different song...

 

[Tigger]

My Dad flew NF Mosquitoes with 600 Sqn.

Over Italy

After flying Beaufighter VI.f's with AI MkVIII radar in North Africa with 153 and 46 Sqns.

Of many intercepts he conducted he said that the EAC that was "impossible" to shoot down was the Ju-87 because even with wheels-down they could not fly slow enough "to get a bead on it"

Many intercepts involved Me-410s which they were instructed strictly "not to shoot down" because the Luftwaffe were dropping secret agents and the Allies wanted to know where they were parachuting so that they could be picked up for interrogation!

They once had a B-24 in their sights but backed-off thinking it was an "American party airplane" going somewhere. Maybe is was something else?!

Martin Bowman's reference to Uhu's with jet-pack described the "JATO" system as being under the fuselage, not over it as would be the case with a He-162 - though maybe the He-162 was flying inverted?!

 

[cheddar cheese]

Interesting 8) Welcome to the site

The He-162 was a bit - no wait a lot of a disaster

 

[Nonskimmer]

The He-162 was a bit - no wait a lot of a disaster

I will say it was an interesting concept, there's no denying that!
The idea being to make a jet fighter that almost anyone could fly. Of course, it didn't actually work out that way, but it's a fascinating idea.

Welcome, Tigger!

 

[cheddar cheese]

It was the location of the engine that really killed it...

 

[Nonskimmer]

The location was chosen for speed of production, I think. So that the aircraft fuselage and engine could be manufactured at the same time in different plants, and then assembled later. That way, fuselage construction could "theoretically" carry on uninterrupted.
Of course, I'm not exactly sure what good an engineless fuselage is.