Best sidearm of Great War

[pinsog]

Due to the confined space in a trench, pistols were often preferred to rifles and some other rather strange weapons were also carried. like trench knives and even sharpened entrenching tools.

Of course what was wanted vs what was available were two different things.

If you mention strange weapons, don't forget the Winchester 1897 pump shotgun. That would have been a ferocious trench weapon in WW1

 

[parsifal]

You will never read about the use of shotguns in the official histories, because they were contrary to the hague convention. Having said that, I know that for a fact, the AIF used them extensively in trench assaults as substitutes for SMGs. They were effective in keeping the turks and later the germans heads down whilst the assaults were trying to embed themselves in the enemy trenches. mind you, the ANZACs also used the gurkhas, previously used mostly as water carriers, as a special night assault force to great effect. armed mostly with just their kukris, these guys were extremely good at night fighting and didn't need pistols to do it.

 

[stona]

I don't think that British officers were obliged to buy their own side arm, though many did.
Cheers
Steve

 

[The Basket]

The French standard sidearm was the Model 1892 revolver which was robust although it fired a weak cartridge. The Ruby was Spanish built pistol made by several factories in Spain which didn't standardise against each other so a magazine wouldn't fit unless it was from the same manufacturer as the gun.

 

[Shortround6]

You are probably correct, I may have mis-remembered "allowed to buy" for "shall buy."

Not sure if any of these made it to WW I but some were chambered for .455 Webley

In the days where a British officer (or trooper) could spend years in India, the Sudan or elsewhere with spare parts months away, a rugged, reliable firearm was of great importance.

 

[Shortround6]

The French standard sidearm was the Model 1892 revolver which was robust although it fired a weak cartridge. The Ruby was Spanish built pistol made by several factories in Spain which didn't standardise against each other so a magazine wouldn't fit unless it was from the same manufacturer as the gun.

And the Model 1892 revolver was a pretty inferior weapon in 1914-18.

While sturdy enough and possessing an interesting feature as regards cleaning

The cartridge for a 30 oz (.85kg) pistol is best described as anemic. The cylinder also swings out to the right instead of the left like the majority of the worlds revolvers with swing out cylinders. How much of a problem this is for reloading I have no idea, Pistol gripped in strong hand (right hand) for the majority of shooters while reloading is done with the weak hand for the rest of the world while the French either swap the pistol to the left to hold and reload with the right or hold with the right hand and cross the left hand over to reload?
Pistol is overly large and heavy for a combat revolver considering the cartridge. However first issue was to officers while non-commissioned officers made do with the older MAS 1873 revolver.

11mm cartridge at least used a 180 grain bullet even if velocity was very low. 337,000 built and quite number used in WW I. Reloding was accomplished by swinging down the loading gate on the right side and punching out the empties one at a time with the ejector rod. Reloading was done one round at a time.

 

[The Basket]

Shame the Reichsrevolver didn't see service.
Beast of a gun. I would say that was the reason for the Luger.
The Broomhandle was certainly the gun you're looking for. Really good in solo operation. But certainly was a force to be reckoned with especially when used with Stormtroopers.

The Spanish had no word for copyright infringement so made copies of most things including Broomhandles and FN1903. The Model Star B is the 1911 clone in 9mm as used by Samuel L Jackson in pulp fiction. Spain became a manufacturer of arms for France and Italy during ww1. Selling guns in war is a growth industry.

The French do things Frenchly when it comes to thier guns. Strange for the sake of strange.

 

[Shortround6]

Shame the Reichsrevolver didn't see service.

It did, just not front line service.

These old revolvers were no more capable and in fact perhaps less capable than the old Colt cowboy revolver. the model 1873.
(Webley being a major exception)

The Reichsrevolver being good for six shots and then used as a club. Trying to reload in combat?? remove cylinder pin and drop cylinder out to the side, use cylinder pin to punch empties out one at a time, re-assemble the 3 pieces and then load one round at a time through the loading gate. OR take supplied stick or rod from ammo pouch and punch empties out one at a time through the gate.
At least the Colt and the old French revolvers had a spring loaded ejector rod attached to the gun to cut the juggling act to a minimum.
The Colt was also chambered for quite a variety of cartridges, a number of them much more powerful than the French or German cartridges.

The Webley was fast to unload.

AS the gun was opened the extractor would rise until the fired cases were clear of the cylinder, un-fired rounds would still have the bullets in the chamber. opening the gun a bit further and the extractor would snap closed. loaded rounds, if any, should fall back into place. In some cases (private purchase?) a speed loader holding six cartridges was available making reloading much quicker than sticking rounds in one or two at a time.
The Webley also used a fairly powerful round.

Please note that on any of these revolvers that use the 6 shot extractors (Webley, Colt, Smith&Wesson, etc)

that a piece of dirt or crud that gets under the extractor "star" can prevent the cylinder from being swung back into the gun. I have had it happen from unburned grains of powder.

 

[The Basket]

The Reichsrevolver is a classic case of a revolver been seen and not used. 3rd tier weapon behind the rifle and sabre.
One of the few revolvers with a safety although the gun was single action only and pulling the hammer back was a workout.
So...the Ruby don't look so bad! Odd to say but Reichsrevolver might be one of the worst reliable guns ever made.
By 1914 it was very obsolete but it's cartridge was powerful and robust. And if you had someone charging you with a bayonet then it's actually not so bad.

 

[Shortround6]

Ruby type pistols make lousy clubs

Unless the Reichsrevolver actually broke in use at an uncommon rate not sure were the lack of reliability comes from.

Many of these old revolvers used blackpowder for propellant and so old ammunition can be very iffy. And even smokeless ammo for the first 30-50 years had it's share of misfires. Things got a lot better after WW II.

 

[The Basket]

Wrote that wrong
Reichsrevolver is reliable. But it still bad. So a bad, reliable gun.
My choice of pistol is the Webley but only if I can get the bayonet attachment. 1911 didn't have a bayonet.

 

[parsifal]

webley was fast to load but the canvas webbing used to hold spare rounds, particularly if wet, was nearly impossible to extract ammunition from. Add to that the regulations requiring the wearing of a lanyard whilst holding a sidearm, and the poor British officer might as well have been using a paint ball gun.

 

[Shortround6]

Granted it is WW II but..............................

Col. David Shilling

 

[The Basket]

I have been shot with a paint ball gun. Not by a Webley. Revolvers are seen as obsolete and archaic but I doubt anyone would like to be on the wrong end of a .455.
The British officer could find themselves in Iraq or Palestine or Salonika so mud and rain was not an issue.
Plenty of revolvers around such as Nagant, Type 26, Bodeo, Rast and Gasser m1898, so very much a revolver war and in cases the revolver was more robust and reliable than the semi auto supposed to replace it.
The 9mm pistol may replace the revolver but not in ww1

 

[Shortround6]

That still leaves the M1911 as king of the hill.

The Nagant, Type 26, Bodeo, Rast and Gasser m1898 all saw use but in general were pretty poor specimens of combat pistols.

The US Colt and S&W police revolvers in either .38S&W/Colt New Police or .38 Special were probably better or at least just as good.

The Germans were about the only major combatant to use the 9mm Parabellum cartridge.

The Italian 9mm round used a smaller powder charge and was thus less powerful, The Austrians used a longer 9mm cartridge of slightly more power.

Do not confuse the hundreds of thousands of cheap, low powered modified pocket pistols used in desperation for actual service pistols.

Please note that Austra-Hungary, Germany, Italy, Japan, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Belgium and others had all adopted semi-automatic pistols before WW I and even the British were toying with one.

The 25-40 year old revolvers saw use because they couldn't build the automatic pistols fast enough and the antiques were dragged out of storage.

 

[parsifal]

I don't think it is possible to even estimate the numbers of revolvers fielded compared to the numbers of revolvers. But in terms of the numbers of different type, it looks as if there were more types of semi automatic pistols to revolvers fielded. From that list I posted earlier, there are 13 different types of semi automatic pistols to just 10 different types of revolver. And at least one, the type 3 Smith & Wesson was really only in use by the US army until 1915, ie as a training weapon.

 

[The Basket]

The Bodeo lasted well into ww2 and the Glisenti model 1910 was not that good. The Glisenti 9mm round was made because the 9mm parabellum was too powerful for the pistol but the Italians still wants 9mm.
The Japanese semi autos were Nambu and the Belgians used the FN 1900 so neither were as powerful as the Webley.
1904 Webley automatic for me....455 Auto for me

 

[Jimbob]

M1911 is the best side arm of WW1 and any other war of the 20th century..

 

[The Basket]

I would concede that 1911 overall when everything is considered is perhaps the best pistol of ww1. Or at least the best semi auto.

To say it's best pistol of the 20th Century?
Er...have you ever heard the story of the Mars Automatic Pistol?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It is hard to argue against it being the best military pistol to have been used in the 20th century.