Better Dambusters

Better Dambusters - how when I consider the operation a tremendous success.

However it was a suicide mission with 46 out of 133 being killed I think.

Max Hastings in his book says

1. The Mobile reserve was ill considered given its casualties were highest once the defenses were alerted.

2. The attempts to bomb earthworks bombs like the Sorpe were entirely pointless (would the later Tallboy have been effective?)

So if it wasn't such a brutal raid would other stuff like 'Highball' have gone on.

All answers gratefully appreciated

gruad said:

Better Dambusters - how when I consider the operation a tremendous success.

However it was a suicide mission with 46 out of 133 being killed I think.

Max Hastings in his book says

1. The Mobile reserve was ill considered given its casualties were highest once the defenses were alerted.

2. The attempts to bomb earthworks bombs like the Sorpe were entirely pointless (would the later Tallboy have been effective?)

So if it wasn't such a brutal raid would other stuff like 'Highball' have gone on.

All answers gratefully appreciated

Click to expand...

Hi
The Sorpe was attacked with Tallboys on 15 October 1944, 18 Lancasters (617 sqn) with 12 bombs from 13,000 and 15,000 feet, it sprang a leek but did not fail. Here is the post attack aerial photo:

Info from 'Bombs Gone' by MacBean and Hogben, pages 144-145.

Mike

MikeMeech said:

Hi
The Sorpe was attacked with Tallboys on 15 October 1944, 18 Lancasters (617 sqn) with 12 bombs from 13,000 and 15,000 feet, it sprang a leek but did not fail. Here is the post attack aerial photo:
View attachment 792975
Info from 'Bombs Gone' by MacBean and Hogben, pages 144-145.

Mike

Click to expand...

If it only sprang a leak after an attack with 12 Tallboys, I doubt using Grand Slams would be much more effective. So that basically rules out an air attack against the Sorpe being at all effective.

Dam 1:0 Busters

gruad said:

Better Dambusters - how when I consider the operation a tremendous success.

However it was a suicide mission with 46 out of 133 being killed I think.

Max Hastings in his book says

1. The Mobile reserve was ill considered given its casualties were highest once the defenses were alerted.

2. The attempts to bomb earthworks bombs like the Sorpe were entirely pointless (would the later Tallboy have been effective?)

So if it wasn't such a brutal raid would other stuff like 'Highball' have gone on.

All answers gratefully appreciated

Click to expand...

It's always difficult to answer such a thing because there was a war on and for us to comment on such strategy decisions comes with hindsight and context that we are often not aware of when the decision was made. Yes, the Dambusters raid was costly, but the results of breaching at least one dam can be regarded as successful. While that might seem cold and inconsiderate given the high casualties, but as mentioned, there was a war on. The ultimate aim of the Allies in WW2 was victory at all costs and for Germany to surrender unconditionally. "At all costs" means people are gonna die, sometimes needlessly, but the Allies were prepared to take any suggestions that might have assisted in bringing the war to an end or at least disrupt the enemy's capacity to continue fighting, no matter how outlandish.

Look at any scenario where military operations or campaigns were unsuccessful, for examples of wasted effort or lives in warfare and a degree of success, no matter how great or small or at whatever cost is preferrable. The Luftwaffe's aborted attempts at subjugating the UK in the summer of 1940 cost the Germans dearly in manpower and equipment. You could argue that even considering launching such attacks against Britain were asking for defeat, but here, other factors come into consideration. Over confidence given German success in the past, poor intelligence before and during the conflict and so forth ensured the Germans were defeated, but at the time they were prepared to try. Same with the Dambusters. The idea was considered smart regardless of the risk, because of what they felt was at stake. Denying factories water so the production of arms is disrupted is a principally clever strategic move, but ultimately proved difficult to execute and was costly in lives.