Bf 110D most common engine type

Discussion in 'Engines' started by greybeard, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. greybeard

    greybeard Member

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    Especially about variant D-3.

    Although it looks that should be the DB 601N, I can't find evidence about this.

    Thanks for any help,
    GB
     
  2. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    #2 stona, Oct 13, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
    The D series was supposed to have the DB 601 A.

    Minutes from a meeting at the RLM on 19/7/40.

    "The 601 N engines in stock are to be used for converting those Bf 110s currently in front line service. This action halts any further conversion of the Bf 109 E (one Group converted so far). The Bf 109 F series retains the 601 N power plant. The next new series Bf 110 will retain the DB 601 A as originally planned."

    There were always plans to convert more Groups to the 601 N engine.

    27/9/40
    "Chief of the General Staff has decided to outfit and perpetually maintain four Bf 110 zerstorer groups with the DB 601 N"

    Given that a few days earlier the Luftwaffe reported a strength of 151 (85) Bf 110 Cs and 103 (71) Bf 110 Ds (number serviceable in brackets) its anyone's guess what had which engines.

    6/11/40
    "The General Staff requests that the 601 N engine series be primarily fitted to the Bf 109 E. In order to free up sufficient quantities of the engine, the General Staff has agreed to have two months' worth (November/December) of Bf 110s (Mtt) equipped with the 601 A.."

    There was also a shortage of C3 fuel which led to the fitting of the DB 601 A

    6/2/41
    "C3 fuel situation: Aircraft manufacturers have begun converting Bf 110s from the N to A engines."

    And so it goes on. About as clear as mud, but most Bf 110 Ds would have ended up with a DB 601 A as would the C series aircraft built at the same time through mid 1940. It seems various units converted to the N series engines and some aircraft may have come off the production line thus equipped (I don't know which or how many off the top of my head) but some may later have been reconverted to the A series!

    It's worth noting that units like ZG 26, who had at least some aircraft engined with the 601 N actually painted a small white N on the outside of the cowling to allow easy identification. This is a sure indication that the N was an exception rather than the rule.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  3. greybeard

    greybeard Member

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    #3 greybeard, Oct 14, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
    Thanks for the kind help.

    Indeed, it's the customary cloud of contradictory information, typical also of nowadays industrial production (when seen from inside), let's figure during a war!

    I was thinking just about ZG 26 when asked, since I found impossible in IL2 combat sim taking-off loaded in desert map (which models also local pressure and temperature) with a Bf 110D-3 powered by DB 601Aa. Replacing this latter with a DB 601P, aircraft can take-off and gain altitude.

    I fear to be forced putting the more powerful powerplant, at least partly supported by some historical evidence that you mentioned.
     
  4. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    I think this is probably a D-3 (my Bf 110 identification skills are a bit rusty!) showing the marking I mentioned.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  5. greybeard

    greybeard Member

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    I found it identified as "Me110-D1-ZG26-(3U+LT)-WrkN3406-Sicily1941" at following link:

    Rod's WarBirds

    Actually, having external tanks, can be only a D or E, since C haven't and F was powered by DB 601F. I'm not an expert, just referred to:

    Wikipedia

    Thank you very much for photographic evidence!

    Best regards,
    GB
     
  6. Denniss

    Denniss Active Member

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    601Aa engine was more used on JaBos than on recons unless they were to be used on low-alt mission. The D-3 (and C-5) recons often got 601N engines for more power at higher alt.
     
  7. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    In September 1940 the Luftwaffe reported a total of 5 Bf 110 C-5s (all serviceable) as "tactical reconnaissance" aircraft and 32 Bf 110 C-5s (17 serviceable) as "strategic reconnaissance" aircraft. All the Ds at this time were either zerstorer or night fighters.

    The RLM/Luftwaffe specifically tried to assign available DB 601 Ns to the zerstorer units, which also operated as fighter bombers. I've not seen any evidence that the C-5s (mostly built by Gothaer Waggonfabrik from May to October 1940) were initially fitted with DB 601 Ns and the RLM minutes never mention them in the ever changing lists of which aircraft should get what engine, unless I've missed something :)

    I think you have a typo. The D-3 was a bomber version with external auxiliary tanks for fuel and oil (like the D-1). The reconnaissance version was the D-1/ D-4, but only 6 were built, modified initially from D-0 to D-1s by Messerschmitt in April 1940. Three had belly tanks and three the "dackelbauch". These six aircraft show up in modification instructions as late as January 1942 when electric heating was fitted to the cameras. Loss reports confirm that the Luftwaffe carried these aircraft as D-4s not D-1s, but they were not operated by reconnaissance units.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  8. Denniss

    Denniss Active Member

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    Bundesarchiv production reports has the 6 D-4 built by MttA as new-built aircraft, 21 D-1 were built by Focke-Wulf, all 100 C-5 were built by GWF. I assume the 22 MttA-built D-2N are night fighters although they may also be D-2 built with 601N.
    Kuffies site has a doc claiming 183 Bf 110 equipped with 601N as of 01.01.1941 - Kurfürst - DB 601, 603, 605 datasheets - DB 601 N
     
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